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View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?
Nuh uh, no way he's real 84 47.46%
Maybe, i can see where he can reasonably exist 32 18.08%
Yes, i believe God exists 61 34.46%
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#411
12-31-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas View Post
Can you agree with me that there are people out there that simply do not want to understand? People believe what they want to believe, that's practically an end all. However, i don't think the Bible is this esoteric cryptogram that some make it out to be. It's plainly written and the truth is plain to see for those willing to "dethrone" themselves and admit that they aren't all there is to the world. To come to terms with the truth that there is an artist, a creator, a Lord and to admit that they are not #1. The concept of pride is rich in detail as it relates to those who choose to believe and those that choose not to believe. I think A.W. Tozer communicated this quite well speaking on the concept of "selfhood":

"The natural man is a sinner because and only because he challenges God's selfhood in relation to his own. In all else he may willingly accept the sovereignty of God; in his own life he rejects it. For him, God's dominion ends where his begins. For him, self becomes Self, and in this he unconsciously imitates Lucifer, that fallen son of the morning who said in his heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, i will exalt my throne above the stars of God...I will be like the Most Hight.'
Yet, so subtle is self that scarcely anyone is conscious of its presence. Because man is born a rebel, he is unaware that he is one. His constant assertation of self, as far as he thinks of it at all, appears to him a perfectly normal thing. He is willing to share himself, sometimes even to sacrifice himself for a desired end, but never to dethrone himself. No matter how far down the scale of social acceptance he may slide, he is still in his own eyes a king on a throne, and no one, not even God, can take that throne from him."
So having views that don't agree with The Bible makes you selfish and stubborn?

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#412
12-31-2010
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Originally Posted by zyphex View Post
Earlier you claimed the bible was a history, now you claim it is plainly written and is the plain truth.
I didn't know truth and history couldn't be one in the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyphex View Post
If this is so, how am I to reconcile the first two chapters of Genesis? If the truth is so plain, am I supposed to believe man and woman were created simultaneously, or that a man named Adam was created first, and then Eve was created out of a rib? Were there two creations of Earth? Does that make sense, or is that a plain true divine mystery that as a mortal I cannot comprehend?
Creation is one of those things that can actually divide churches. Not on the grounds of whether or not you can be saved if you believe God created everything in 6 days or other alternatives. Many people think that evolution is contradictory to Creationism. But you would be surprised how many Christian churches are willing to accept evolution as God's way of creation... but it's still creation and it's still design and it's still God. There's much debate in the church that the 6 days could have been translated into the course of many years, as the measurement of time back then may have had a different standard.

I think the difference between Christian evolutionists and atheist evolutionists, if i may so rudely put it, is that Christian evolutionists don't believe the universe just eventually "figured itself out" which, correct me if i'm wrong, is basically what many believe...given an "infinite" or obscure amount of time, "anything" is possible...we just happened to be one of those possibilities that lined up quite perfectly. Or am I just strawmanning? Either way, consider my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindfreak61 View Post
Just curious, did you actually look through any of these or just find a big website with a tiny scroll bar to prove your point? Either way, if you go through these (i haven't gone through all, but about a dozen), you'll see that the word "contradiction" embodies a weak definition of itself in reference to a number of these. Many are taken out of context. Believe it or not, context is an important thing in life, so why not the Bible? Those who choose to read scripture splinter by splinter and do not look at the tree as a whole tree will miss the point completely, and that's what most people do. NothSpartan said it quite well
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSpartan View Post
I can really disregard all of the trivial nitpicking of doctrine because I understand what the Bible as a whole teaches us, what the big picture is. Organized religion has probably been the most detrimental thing to the Christian faith. Too many old men haggling over unimportant things like how to interpret this story, should this passage be taken in a literal sense or a figurative one, can we eat meat on this day or can't we, so on and so forth.

Just an example from the website your gave me--- Does Hell Exist?
The entire list of "contradictions" that attempt to say it are at the words deepest nature questionable.

"The LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven."
...this contradicts the verse in Daniel that speaks of some waking in everlasting light and others in everlasting contempt?

"The ungodly ... are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. ... The ungodly shall perish."
...and this means no hell, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuTiNY View Post
So having views that don't agree with The Bible makes you selfish and stubborn?
To the almost unconscious level, yes. Who are you willing to answer to? Consider yourself second to anything? People live their lives as #1, do you disagree with me? Even then, i'll go back to what Towzer said, "He is willing to share himself, sometimes even to sacrifice himself for a desired end, but never to dethrone himself." ---> So that man saved many people from diseases in Africa, spending his entire life looking after and caring for those less fortunate than him. His entire life was dedicated to helping others. But in the end, it's HE that did it. HE is the champion, the king, #1 that should be praised. Out of the altruistic nature of his own heart HE helped those people, therefore HE is the object of praise.

It is not I that work but God that works through me.
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#413
12-31-2010
Thumbs down

It's actually one and the same.

Quote:
Creation is one of those things that can actually divide churches. Not on the grounds of whether or not you can be saved if you believe God created everything in 6 days or other alternatives. Many people think that evolution is contradictory to Creationism. But you would be surprised how many Christian churches are willing to accept evolution as God's way of creation... but it's still creation and it's still design and it's still God. There's much debate in the church that the 6 days could have been translated into the course of many years, as the measurement of time back then may have had a different standard.

I think the difference between Christian evolutionists and atheist evolutionists, if i may so rudely put it, is that Christian evolutionists don't believe the universe just eventually "figured itself out" which, correct me if i'm wrong, is basically what many believe...given an "infinite" or obscure amount of time, "anything" is possible...we just happened to be one of those possibilities that lined up quite perfectly. Or am I just strawmanning? Either way, consider my point.
I like how you didn't actually address a single bit of the point he made and instead tried to redirect it toward the tired subject of evolution.
Quote:
Those who choose to read scripture splinter by splinter and do not look at the tree as a whole tree will miss the point completely, and that's what most people do.
I like how this contradicts your whole spiel about how it's easy to read the Bible and all the words are infallible truth that is plainly evident. There are contradictions throughout (there are; stop trying to handwave them away), even with just a cursory reading. If the bible is as perfect as you've let on, it should hold up to "splinter by splinter" scrutiny.

Quote:
Just an example from the website your gave me--- Does Hell Exist?
The entire list of "contradictions" that attempt to say it are at the words deepest nature questionable.

"The LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven."
...this contradicts the verse in Daniel that speaks of some waking in everlasting light and others in everlasting contempt?

"The ungodly ... are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. ... The ungodly shall perish."
...and this means no hell, right?
Oh, hey, cherrypicking and handwaving. Fun stuff. How about this one.


How about answering the point that that Isaiah passage isn't referring to the modern "Satan," but to the king of Babylon? Also, this is poisoning the well:

Quote:
To the almost unconscious level, yes. Who are you willing to answer to? Consider yourself second to anything? People live their lives as #1, do you disagree with me? Even then, i'll go back to what Towzer said, "He is willing to share himself, sometimes even to sacrifice himself for a desired end, but never to dethrone himself." ---> So that man saved many people from diseases in Africa, spending his entire life looking after and caring for those less fortunate than him. His entire life was dedicated to helping others. But in the end, it's HE that did it. HE is the champion, the king, #1 that should be praised. Out of the altruistic nature of his own heart HE helped those people, therefore HE is the object of praise.
as is your previous falling back on a guy misreading the apparently plain truth of the bible.
Spoiler!

Last edited by davobrosia; 12-31-2010 at 01:29 PM.
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#414
12-31-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas View Post
Can you agree with me that there are people out there that simply do not want to understand? People believe what they want to believe, that's practically an end all.
Like Christians? Some people have the courage to recognize a lack of evidence and say, "I don't know how the universe came about, yet. I don't know what's going to happen to me after I die, but it's looking like total nothingness. I have to figure out morality and purpose on my own, rather than relying on religion."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas View Post
However, i don't think the Bible is this esoteric cryptogram that some make it out to be. It's plainly written and the truth is plain to see for those willing to "dethrone" themselves and admit that they aren't all there is to the world. To come to terms with the truth that there is an artist, a creator, a Lord and to admit that they are not #1. The concept of pride is rich in detail as it relates to those who choose to believe and those that choose not to believe.
That's actually one of the biggest problems with all religion. It demands that you throw away your self-esteem, debase yourself, grovel. You're couching horrible language in noble-sounding terms.
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#415
12-31-2010
Thumbs down

Also the whole fascist invasion of privacy.
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#416
12-31-2010
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I believe in God.
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#417
12-31-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas View Post
I didn't know truth and history couldn't be one in the same.

Creation is one of those things that can actually divide churches. Not on the grounds of whether or not you can be saved if you believe God created everything in 6 days or other alternatives. Many people think that evolution is contradictory to Creationism. But you would be surprised how many Christian churches are willing to accept evolution as God's way of creation... but it's still creation and it's still design and it's still God. There's much debate in the church that the 6 days could have been translated into the course of many years, as the measurement of time back then may have had a different standard.

I think the difference between Christian evolutionists and atheist evolutionists, if i may so rudely put it, is that Christian evolutionists don't believe the universe just eventually "figured itself out" which, correct me if i'm wrong, is basically what many believe...given an "infinite" or obscure amount of time, "anything" is possible...we just happened to be one of those possibilities that lined up quite perfectly. Or am I just strawmanning? Either way, consider my point.
I wasn't addressing creation vs. evolution.

The point is this. You claim that the bible is a history and is the "plain truth". OK, reasonable enough thusfar; I was not contending history and the plain truth cannot be one and the same.

The point is that if the Bible is a flat-out cut-and-dry plain truth history, how am I to reconcile two chapters, juxtaposed, by using a literal interpretation. In chapter 1, God created creatures before man and woman. In chapter 2, He created man (Adam), then creatures, then woman (Eve). Which am I to take as the true historical timeline of the events of God's creation?

The purpose of my post is to suggest that your interpretation of the Bible as strictly historical and requiring no interpretation is incorrect.
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#418
11-18-2011
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most definitely, but I'm not sure the christian god is who it really is.
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#420
12-04-2011
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I look at the state of the world and find it hard to believe there is some greater being looking out for all of us.


"I am tired of Earth. These people. I'm tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
 

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