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The Colostomizer
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#101
03-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llcontrall
1) im an idiot wow thanks alot im not the one trying make relgion look stupid and bad for no reason at all. i highly doubt religon has caused you alot problems

2) im not going to defend my faith to someone who's only purpose is try to make religous people look stupid. what the point? no matter what i write you will respond with a remark trying to dissprove it. even if i won the debate you would just say religon is bad. its not like your honestly trying to talk sense into people.
Oh, I didn't realize you knew that I had no reason to attack religion. You must know me very well. How about this? Quit being a jackass and pretending to know me. You highly doubt religion has caused me a lot of problems? Take the cock out of your mouth.

I'm not trying to make religious people look stupid; you must have interpreted it that way because you're insecure about your intelligence and you see personal attacks where there are none. I'm challenging peoples' beliefs, making them think about what they take for granted. I want to ensure that beliefs are justified, and I think that we'd be better off if religion no longer existed. That's why I made this thread.

I'm only going to refute a point if I think it's wrong. I'm capable of admitting I'm wrong (an ability you'll probably never know). I'd only continue to claim that we'd be better off without religion if I continued believing it.

Do everyone a favor and don't come back to this thread, llcontrall. Good points are wasted on you, and you're not worth debating with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiNoBi 2
Not the main problem we face but it's up there. Most people do value evidence but alot of the time "evidence" is distorted to make people believe what they want them to.

Anyways I think people just need to have faith and not take everything so serious in this world. It's not like your getting out of here alive anyways. Let things happen. Believe what you want as long has it doesn't harm anything or anyone else.
Like Cursed Lemon said, you shouldn't believe what you want. You should believe in what's right. Then again, if your beliefs don't interfere with anyone else's rights, I don't really care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
Most education methods work best when you show them how stuff is true. When I want to show how an acid neutralizes a base telling them about Hydrogen atoms doesn't really do it. But actually showing them how it works with dyes and electrodes does.
But how do you do that with God? That's the problem.
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#102
03-22-2006
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You have made a very good point.

Many Christians do not even begin to think about the margin of error in the Bible. It could have been written by a bunch of zealots with nothing better to do (which isn't very likely, but hey, it's a theory ). But there are a few reasons people choose to believe...

Fear. People fear death. They are willing to do anything to get away from it... and religion is a solution. If we choose to believe in the Christian God, we will go to heaven and live with him eternally. Sounds pretty cool right?

Ignorance. People do not think about things as much as they should, and they willingly accept anything they hear. If their 2nd grade religion teacher tells them that they will go to Heaven and live with God forever, they will believe it. Most Christians are taught about their religion at a very young age. Their minds are open to anything. The theory implants in their brains and it stays there for life.

Those are just a couple reasons people choose to have faith in the Bible and believe everything it says and everything that people tell them. We should all really think about things a lot more though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceGuy View Post
It's spelled 'hypocrite' lookinfor1v1. Jesus Christ can't save your grammar.
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#103
03-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
How can a Christian presume to know how the universe works? Because it says so in the Bible. How do we know that the Bible is telling the truth? Because the Bible itself says so. Sam Harris called this line of reasoning one of the "epistemological black holes" that is "fast draining the light from our world," and I'm inclined to agree with him. Why is faith alone sufficient to justify Christianity?

If a man assassinated the President because he held the belief that the President was an alien behind a conspiracy to destroy the Earth, he would be held accountable unless he presented incontrovertible proof that the Commander-in-Chief was indeed an alien. It would not matter if the assassin had faith that he was right, he'd need proof. Why don't Christians need proof?

God did not write the Bible, and I've never met a Christian who disagreed. Instead, a group of men who were inspired by God wrote it. What if the men who wrote the Bible were lying? Is that not conceivable? Christians have faith that the men who wrote the Bible weren't lying. If I have faith that it is raining outside, but no evidence to suggest so, would you take my word for it? I'm guessing you wouldn't bet your life on it (remember, I have nothing to suggest that it's raining, I just have faith). So why do you accept the Bible so completely?

How can God expect anyone to pick the one true faith when there are so many to choose from and none have any proof to back up their claims? If you're born in a predominantly Muslim country, if you grow up in a mostly Islamic community, and if you're raised in a Muslim household, chances are you'll end up believing in Allah. What else can you do? If all of the people around you are telling you that Islam's the way to go, there's no reason to choose Christianity instead because the Bible has no proof that its claims are more valid than those of the Koran (and vice-versa). So that person, according to the Bible, will languish in Hell for all eternity if they do not become Christian. Salvation should not be even partially based on where you're born, but that is what it seems like.
That was a very nice post. I don't have any good answers, ufortunately, I've been asking the same questions for years.
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#104
03-22-2006
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If faith wasn't enough, than no one would take a chance. Some one said on this forum, that it takes faith to ride in a car. It takes faith to do an action. If there wasn't any faith, than we would all live in bubbles, and play patty cake all day. If faith is not enough, than tell me, what is?

EDIT: I bet I am going to feel stupid in a while.
Good Morning USA, I have a feeling it's going to be a wonderful day.
The sun in the sky has a smile on his face, and it's shining a salute to the American race!
Oh boy it's swell to say: "Good Morning USA!"
"Good Morning USA!!!"
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#105
03-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
But how do you do that with God? That's the problem.
Well I would say the absence of evidence would be that. With most of the known world looking for evidence of god with no results for thousands of years the book may not be closed in most peoples mind but I would say that we have looked hard enough and now all need to turn to finding that old DVD player remote thats been missing for weeks.

There are only a few people working on the real problems in the world (disease, hunger, energy) and allthough there may only be a few people able to do such searching if the whole world would help out instead of wasting time on something that has no evidence supporting it we could move a lot faster in other fields.

Think of the money, time, energy spendt supporting the infastructure of something that has no evidence supporting it. That is a lot of cancer research and space exploration that could be done or even better you could fund my research

I guess my point is, there could be a magic fairy running around making all if our eyes work they way they do. But since there has never been any evidence of it, it is most likely not happening.

This isn't the case in every scenario, the absense of proof does not deny the existence of something. But considering the time, money, amount of people working on the "god project" I would consider we should have at least one piece of evidence for it. Otherwise most people would scrap a project such as that.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
JayMs
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#106
03-22-2006
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God is like the wind. You can feel him, but you cannot see him directly. However, we have found ways to 'see' wind, and we have not found that way of searching for God.
Good Morning USA, I have a feeling it's going to be a wonderful day.
The sun in the sky has a smile on his face, and it's shining a salute to the American race!
Oh boy it's swell to say: "Good Morning USA!"
"Good Morning USA!!!"
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#107
03-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthV8R
God is like the wind. You can feel him, but you cannot see him directly. However, we have found ways to 'see' wind, and we have not found that way of searching for God.
You can see wind. You can measure wind. You can calculate wind. You just cannot do it without the proper technology.

bad analogy


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
JayMs
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#108
03-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
You can see wind. You can measure wind. You can calculate wind. You just cannot do it without the proper technology.

bad analogy
What I meant, is that you cannot see it directly. You couldn't see wind, if it wasn't for dust, and snow and rain.
Good Morning USA, I have a feeling it's going to be a wonderful day.
The sun in the sky has a smile on his face, and it's shining a salute to the American race!
Oh boy it's swell to say: "Good Morning USA!"
"Good Morning USA!!!"
MarkedAchilles
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#109
03-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthV8R
What I meant, is that you cannot see it directly. You couldn't see wind, if it wasn't for dust, and snow and rain.
You can see wind with better equipment. You can analyze its contents observe their reactions with heat. Actually all wind is is heat reacting with the gassous particles in a circular motion. The sun heats up the gas particles and the rotations start at the equator and procede to move through the other 3 cylinders of wind "tubes" at 30 60 and 90 degrees lattitude. Sattelite immagery has shown this pretty clearly.

But I know what you are trying to say but I just contend that wind was a bad choice.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
BiShoP
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#110
03-22-2006
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Faith is an essential part of any person's life. All people live by some measure of faith, whether you believe it or not. Whether it be faith in science or faith in religion, you are still living by some measure of faith.

MarkedAchilles, I know you have had this debate before with Colostomizer, however, let me add my input. From what I gathered, you stated that scientific factual information is not living by faith, but rather statistics and data, am I correct?

The problem with this is the advancements in science and technology you see before you today. What would happen if you chose to believe in a certain scientific certainty, which, in a matter of say 10 years was cast aside without a shadow of a doubt and founded to be absolutely false, with new scientific data replacing it? Your faith in the system has been shattered, so therefore you place your faith in the new data. Am I correct in my assumptions?
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