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#31
01-18-2007
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Nothing I enjoy more than a midas post. It always has the right... touch.
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#32
01-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebal771 View Post
Uhhh....what?

I think it's human instinct to follow what you desire. If you don't desire the RDD...then obviously you would not choose to the Dad. Pretty simple, really.

How is that any different than what I was doing? It's all based on the person that you ask this question to, because there is no "objectivity" here other than maybe how you present the opposing ideas.

Isn't that pretty blatantly obvious?
I think that goes without saying, because you are subjectively biased to your cat...not the dad.

I find it hard to approach this situation objectively, because every creature is different, as well as the interaction with each possible comparison. Say you asked this same question to me...who has a tendancy to hate cats. I would probably save the Dad by default...because I hate cats (even yours), so that would cause me to react differently than you. Even when comparing humans, we find that they are different in so many ways that comparing them in a realistic light will allow people to see that there are no two cats or two humans that are exactly alike. And likewise...depending upon who you ask the question to, they will not hold this comparison in the same, objective light that you will...causing the entire premise of "approaching this objectively" to completely flop.

In fact...I would probably go on to say that it is nearly impossible to approach this in an objective manner unless you're are solely comparing the IDEAS of Cat and Human inductively, and that, my friend, will not actually lead to any fruitful discussion, since you're not comparing real-life examples. Not all humans are dead beat dads...and not all cats are loving, affectionate house-pets. Therefore your attempt to judge this situation objectively will not, in fact, work as a valid comparison.

If you don't want to look at the question subjectively, don't compare two existing things that exist in different capacities. Compare things that are static or consistent, like a defined principle or an idea/theory. And even then...it had better not be something that anyone has any previous knowledge of...or there will already be a bias on one side or the other from the person you are questioning.

It's not bad to look at things subjectively if you can recognize the fact that it's subjective.
Simply pointing out it's subjectivity shows that you are taking in an objective approach, as I did.

Here's my question to you: What qualities/characteristics do humans have that you would think gives them any sort of value, and out of those, how many of them are unique to humans? Now, out of those unique qualities, can anyone be considered to be truly human if you were to take a few of them away? Not only that, but if you were to give those qualities to a monkey, a dolphin, or a lion, would they then be of equal value as a human?

You say that a random deadbeat dad and a cat exist in different capacities. How so? They are a person and a cat, they are different species, and they have different characteristics, but that doesn't mean that their qualities and characteristics can't be compared and contrasted in a way that holds one above the other. There are things that the cat brings to the table and things that the dad brings to the table. In my comparison, I purposely kept the list of each participants qualities short so as to illustrate the point. If that was all the dad could do yet he only did them sparringly or not at all, then he is not worth more than the cat I described. That is my opinion, but the qualities themselves have been laid out objectively and without bias.

The thing I want other people to do is to put forth what qualities or combination of qualities an organism needs to put forth to be valuable. I do not hold any stock in the concept of intrinsic value as it relates to people or ethics. It seems like a completely absurd idea to have that being human in and of itself gives someone more value over a cat, dog, or mouse. Now, if we can further delineate what it is about being human that makes that so, then maybe I'd buy into it a bit more. However, I can't particularly think of anything off the top of my head that is a unique quality to humans that would fit in that category. So I await someone else to point out some of them. I take that back, advanced reasoning skills would definitely go on the list, but other than that I can't say what should be there.


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#33
01-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the midas touch View Post
(Do you hate people?)
"Pretty much, I would have to say absolutely."
(Why?)
"Ignorance."
- MJK

Maynard James Keenan or Marinejegerkommandoen?

I can't tell, you see, either could have said that.

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#34
01-18-2007
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ture dat. some humans are great. some are worthlesss.
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#35
01-31-2007
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yea i can see how that is

Quote:
Originally Posted by the midas touch View Post
(Do you hate people?)
"Pretty much, I would have to say absolutely."
(Why?)
"Ignorance."
- MJK



Angels on the sideline,
Puzzled and amused
Why did Father give these humans free will?
Now they're all confused


Don't these talking monkeys know that
Eden has enough to go around?
Plenty in this holy garden, silly monkeys
Where there's one you're bound to divide it,
Right in two


Angels on the sideline,
Baffled and confused
Father blessed them all with reason
And this is what they choose
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey
Over pieces of the ground


Silly monkeys give them thumbs,
They forge a blade, and where there's one
They're bound to divide it,

Right in two
Right in two

Monkey killing monkey killing monkey
Over pieces of the ground
Silly monkeys give them thumbs
They make a club and beat their brother down
How they survive so misguided is a mystery
Repugnant is a creature who would squander
The ability to live tonight on heaven
Conscious of his fleeting time here



Cut it right all, right in two

Fight over cloud, over earth, over sky
Fight over life, over blood, over air and light
Fight over love, over sun, over another
Fight for each other, for the ones who are rising

Angels on the sideline again
Been so long with patience and reason
Angels on the sideline again
Wondering when this tug of war will end


Cut it right all, right in two
Right in two


Right in two
TOOL FTW + rep in my book

Last edited by the midas touch; 01-31-2007 at 11:39 PM.
 

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