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davobrosia
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#1
11-10-2010
Default The idea of a post-racial America

http://doctorlane.blogspot.com/2010/...a-is-post.html



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#2
11-10-2010
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How can that lady live comfortably with that shit on her head?

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#3
11-11-2010
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I watched the video, and I think Professor Crenshaw makes some sensible points.

That said, I tend to fall more in the middle of the racial/post-racial approach to race relations. In this context, I use racial to refer to the more intensified/singular issue approach to race that people like Tim Wise have. There is no doubt a post-racial approach is grounded in willful ignorance. However, I feel racial thinkers tend to overstate their case and damage what valid arguments they have. I'm not a fan of the "code words" detective work Professor Crenshaw, Tim Wise, etc. do. Example:
http://www.counterpunch.org/wise08112009.html

Socialism/Socialist as a code word, "Take Our Country Back" as a rallying cry to restore white America, and so on. That article for me epitomizes when racial thinking goes a bit too far. I think a more careful, responsible approach should be taken to matters of racism. There is enough racism to be condemned without code words having to be interpreted and thought up so we can find more racism to condemn.

I have a ton of work to do so I will have to stop it there.
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#4
11-16-2010
Default

Quote:
Socialism/Socialist as a code word, "Take Our Country Back" as a rallying cry to restore white America, and so on. That article for me epitomizes when racial thinking goes a bit too far. I think a more careful, responsible approach should be taken to matters of racism. There is enough racism to be condemned without code words having to be interpreted and thought up so we can find more racism to condemn.
If the ideology behind those 'code words' is in fact racist there will always be someone there to highlight it. 'Take Our Country Back' at a glance seems racist, back from whom/what and what campaign had that slogan involved?

*Unless that whom/what was the government.

Quote:
There is no doubt a post-racial approach is grounded in willful ignorance.
Isn't it the opposite; that a racial approach is grounded in willful ignorance, the ignorance that race is a social construction? I would think the only sensible America would be a post-racial one, that is openly accepting of people.

Last edited by Yeshwa; 11-16-2010 at 02:50 AM.
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#5
11-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
Isn't it the opposite; that a racial approach is grounded in willful ignorance, the ignorance that race is a social construction? I would think the only sensible America would be a post-racial one, that is openly accepting of people.
I think you are both right in different ways. A post-racial America would rely on willful ignorance towards the social structure and hierarchy in America in its early days (cough, slavery) and the long-lasting effects of said society. A racial approach is ignorant towards the idea (fact?) that race is a social construct, as you put it. And one point someone made was that race "is a term used by many people to specify groups of people distinguished by physical characteristics such as skin color". I don't know how true that is, I think tradition and culture are as important, if not more, than biology, in terms of race.

And no real points of contention in the video. I don't directly disagree but feel kind of indifferent to the topic.
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Last edited by briansoupy; 11-16-2010 at 04:01 PM.
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#7
11-16-2010
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I'll weigh back in on this in a couple weeks. I've got 2 important papers in the works that require most of my mental faculties, so I don't have it in me to give a full response yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sl1cK_ View Post
tl;dr: race isn't real, but that doesn't mean people don't act like it is.

These are particularly important points:
Quote:
Nonetheless, with the growing population of free Africans in America, fear of losing hegemonic control began to spread through the white population. Due to this, race as a biological concept was developed and used to justify the enslavement of a growing free black population early in U.S. history. This initial biological understanding of race helped draw the color line. The boundaries of group membership were marked by skin color. Till this day the primary race indicator is skin color.
Quote:
Nonetheless, as Frankenberg discusses and admits she herself is evidence of, white people are often blind to racism and do not see the privileges they have due to their skin color. Regardless of white people being anti-racist, they participate within a racialized society which privileges them. As Frantz Fanon described in his book Black Skin, White Masks, many individuals may claim they are not racist while tacitly accept the dominant racist ideology by way of reaping the benefits coffered to them.
Quote:
It seems only natural to suppose that race will disappear altogether, as Fanon had hoped, once society stops collectively agreeing, accepting, and continuously imposing the notion of race. Nonetheless, this is a na´ve supposition. Racism is engrained not only in the minds of people, but in the structure of society itself. Our legal system, our prison system, our educational system, our housing system, and various other aspects of society are all racialized.
And yeah, Tim Wise can get a bit irritating.
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Last edited by davobrosia; 11-16-2010 at 09:42 PM.
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#8
11-17-2010
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Wait I'm confused, the speaker is arguing that there is not such thing as "reverse-racism" as if it never happens? There are holes you can drive a truck through with her arguments. Liberty doesn't mean liberty to be racist and Discipline isn't a code word for racism. it urks me even more that she dangles the history of racism out there trying to make modern America looks as racist as historical America, like any good lawyer making her case with out accusations.

I agree that race has to be considered since social racism still exists (just take a trip to Halo online to see that). But her arguments seem more like 'shame on the color blind people, for they are as racist as the KKK' rather than, 'lets not get ahead of ourselves here.' Like I said earlier she doesn't accuse color-blind people of anything but she loves to bring up historical racism when she's asked about post-racial society.
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#9
11-17-2010
Default

Show me an example of "reverse racism" that wasn't really just butthurt privileged white folks disagreeing with attempts to account for their privilege.

"Color blind" people are racist, implicitly. http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/02...e-racist-kids/
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#10
11-17-2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davobrosia View Post
Show me an example of "reverse racism" that wasn't really just butthurt privileged white folks disagreeing with attempts to account for their privilege.
0_o you serious? Here's one thing that happened a few miles from me, in 2006.
http://www.southwestobserver.com/new...-beating-12-33
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...rly-park-teens

I hardly think the kid who was jumped for being a "goofy white kid" is really just a case of 'butthurt privileged white folks disagreeing with attempts to account for their privilege.' Especially when he told reporters:
Quote:
"I want to express that all the colors can be different. You can't judge a book by its cover ... all black people can't be like that; all African-Americans are different," Rusch said.
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