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Billy
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#31
05-30-2009
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like everyone mentioned, getting drunk is the sin. about marriage, i'm not sure... just the way it is i guess.

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#32
05-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Mike View Post
if you are going to join a religion and follow its teachings you should follow and interpret it strictly
I think your interpretation is extremely flawed. You have to realize that there are many many issues that are still, and always will be, debatable and have varying interpretations. While many can bring good points to both sides, nobody will truly ever know the complete exact truth.

Besides, there is no one way to be a Christian. Christianity is not black and white, there is so much gray area, and so much that deals with the follower's heart (something that only God can see and judge, not humans). It is not like the bible specifically says 'do these steps!' and 'do not do these steps!' (excluding a few times, ten commandments, biblical laws, Jesus' teaching, etc.). The other hundreds of scripture is history, story, poems, letters, analogies, examples, etc.

Quote:
you can't just decide to no follow some of its rules and disobey others
Three interesting points here that I observe.

1. Nobody is perfect, even the 'holiest' Christians will keep sinning until the day they die, only by Christ's death and resurrection, do they believe, there sins are covered.

2. Many disobey rules out of ignorance. I know that was the case for myself, as well as many others I have met. When one becomes a Christian, it is not like they instantly know exactly how to live a 'perfect' 'sin-free' life, they never will. Life is a learning process.

3. In the Christian realm they call this the 'luke warm' Christian vs. the 'on fire' Christian. It is another deep and lengthy debate in and of itself. Basically those on the 'luke warm' side say that Jesus forgives all sins, and it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you believe in Him, you are saved. They also give many biblical references, which I don't have the time/energy to list right now, sorry, maybe later.

Those on the 'on fire' Christian point of view say that while that is true, Jesus also says that His followers that they need to 'daily pick up there cross and follow Him' (which illustrates an analogy I doubt you will understand because it can be confusing for non believers to do so, no offense). The previous statement is biblical too, as well as when Jesus talks about 'if you love me, you will obey my commands', which is also biblical, and points out the thought that if the 'luke warm' Christian did truly believe in Christ, they would love Him, which would then lead them to obey His commands on a more voluntary and frequent occasion.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, but hopefully it helps out a bit. Sorry for not really referencing exact verses, I did roughly quote a few times for the 'on fire' position. As for the 'luke warm', I didn't, but I just gave a brief outline so hopefully that will suffice for you.

You have to realize and remember that temptation will always gets the best of every Christian here and there, just because a Christian follows some or most rules rarely or usually, is irrelevant I think. Nobody is perfect. If you love God, and give your life to Him, you are saved, that is my opinion. Like I said, there are opposing points and opinions others have.
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#33
05-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
I think your interpretation is extremely flawed. You have to realize that there are many many issues that are still, and always will be, debatable and have varying interpretations. While many can bring good points to both sides, nobody will truly ever know the complete exact truth.

Besides, there is no one way to be a Christian. Christianity is not black and white, there is so much gray area, and so much that deals with the follower's heart (something that only God can see and judge, not humans). It is not like the bible specifically says 'do these steps!' and 'do not do these steps!' (excluding a few times, ten commandments, biblical laws, Jesus' teaching, etc.). The other hundreds of scripture is history, story, poems, letters, analogies, examples, etc.



Three interesting points here that I observe.

1. Nobody is perfect, even the 'holiest' Christians will keep sinning until the day they die, only by Christ's death and resurrection, do they believe, there sins are covered.

2. Many disobey rules out of ignorance. I know that was the case for myself, as well as many others I have met. When one becomes a Christian, it is not like they instantly know exactly how to live a 'perfect' 'sin-free' life, they never will. Life is a learning process.

3. In the Christian realm they call this the 'luke warm' Christian vs. the 'on fire' Christian. It is another deep and lengthy debate in and of itself. Basically those on the 'luke warm' side say that Jesus forgives all sins, and it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you believe in Him, you are saved. They also give many biblical references, which I don't have the time/energy to list right now, sorry, maybe later.

Those on the 'on fire' Christian point of view say that while that is true, Jesus also says that His followers that they need to 'daily pick up there cross and follow Him' (which illustrates an analogy I doubt you will understand because it can be confusing for non believers to do so, no offense). The previous statement is biblical too, as well as when Jesus talks about 'if you love me, you will obey my commands', which is also biblical, and points out the thought that if the 'luke warm' Christian did truly believe in Christ, they would love Him, which would then lead them to obey His commands on a more voluntary and frequent occasion.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, but hopefully it helps out a bit. Sorry for not really referencing exact verses, I did roughly quote a few times for the 'on fire' position. As for the 'luke warm', I didn't, but I just gave a brief outline so hopefully that will suffice for you.

You have to realize and remember that temptation will always gets the best of every Christian here and there, just because a Christian follows some or most rules rarely or usually, is irrelevant I think. Nobody is perfect. If you love God, and give your life to Him, you are saved, that is my opinion. Like I said, there are opposing points and opinions others have.
Bungie.net kids called, they want YOU to have Recon.

This is an amazing and in depth post that covers multiple spectrum's and angles. You sir, most definitely know what is up.
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#34
05-30-2009
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Originally Posted by iSlayer View Post
Bungie.net kids called, they want YOU to have Recon.

This is an amazing and in depth post that covers multiple spectrum's and angles. You sir, most definitely know what is up.
Lol, thanks for the props Slayer. Just trying to give light to both sides of the coin, I try my best not to play favorites with debates.

PS - Hope I get my Recon soon! :P
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#35
05-31-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
Honestly, I really do not know. My perception of it is that the majority of Christians who believe otherwise are the super extreme conservative Christians. They also tend to believe that dancing and smoking are bad too. Which would lead to the same argument from us, saying that dancing and smoking in themselves are certainly not bad, but I suppose they could lead to sin. If you are reckless/careless/stupid lol.

To me it is ridiculous too, because then where do you decide to draw the line? Then why not say going out into public is sinning, because you can see people doing things that will be tempting, or you can be blatantly asked by someone to do something bad (peer pressure, etc.). On and on and on...



Exactly true, glad you at least are able to realize that. Very mature of you.
I live about 30 minutes south of the OP apparently... My point in saying that is to agree with you observation of conservative Christians believing that drinking alcohol is a sin. I have yet to go to a Baptist church outside of the south, but it is my understanding that it is a totally different breed of character. Which is why, Baptists in the south are actually often referred to as Southern Baptists.

I want to give an example of one of the few times I actually went to a Baptist church. The preacher during his sermon actually said, if we did not vote for George W. Bush, we would have to answer for it in the after life. WHAT!? Another example for discussion. This same man accused and has called out Arnold Schwarzenegger (not sure how to spell it) as the anti-Christ. Final example, he called out the congregation for not paying enough tithe, when he himself lives in a VERY nice house where all his bills are payed for by the church... You MUST be kidding me. I myself was infuriated but the people of this church believe in him and it just amazes me. I will say this is only an example of one man and not to be believed that every southern Baptist church believes in all of this, but just to prove a point.

I just want to say I agree with your statement about alcohol and compliment you on your write-up and references to the Bible.

On the marriage issue. I know that in the Catholic church, if you are married Catholic, then you are married under God. You have confessed your love to each other and well you know the whole deal. Simply, although I am not married yet, from what I understand it's for taxes and a few other benefits the government offers. Point in a nutshell, yes your religion can see you as married and the government not, or the government can see you as married and your religion not, or they can both see you as married.




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#36
05-31-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SizZLe View Post
Why is drinking alcohol, no matter the amount, a sin? Why not a recommended avoidance?

Why do people need government papers saying they are united in order to be married? Doesn't marriage in the christian context involve taking an oath under God to genuinely love your partner?
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#37
05-31-2009
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Originally Posted by Fc dofep View Post
I want to give an example of one of the few times I actually went to a Baptist church. The preacher during his sermon actually said, if we did not vote for George W. Bush, we would have to answer for it in the after life. WHAT!? Another example for discussion. This same man accused and has called out Arnold Schwarzenegger (not sure how to spell it) as the anti-Christ. Final example, he called out the congregation for not paying enough tithe, when he himself lives in a VERY nice house where all his bills are payed for by the church... You MUST be kidding me. I myself was infuriated but the people of this church believe in him and it just amazes me. I will say this is only an example of one man and not to be believed that every southern Baptist church believes in all of this, but just to prove a point.
Wow, I'm speechless, that is horrible. How can someone like that be allowed to lead a church? Absolutely pitiful, his errors are so numerous I don't know where to begin in pointing them all out (so I won't).

Quote:
I just want to say I agree with your statement about alcohol and compliment you on your write-up and references to the Bible.
Thanks yo.

Quote:
On the marriage issue. I know that in the Catholic church, if you are married Catholic, then you are married under God. You have confessed your love to each other and well you know the whole deal. Simply, although I am not married yet, from what I understand it's for taxes and a few other benefits the government offers. Point in a nutshell, yes your religion can see you as married and the government not, or the government can see you as married and your religion not, or they can both see you as married.
Yeah, I totally agree with you, honestly legal marriage having to be recognized by the government doesn't bug me, so I have never delved deeply into the topic. But what you said is what I have always thought to be true as well.
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#38
06-12-2009
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well as for the drinking issue, i really dont understand why you would ever drink alcohol because that would interfere with your ability to get head shots and beat downs in halo. obviously your reaction time would slow down and that would certainly not help during a game of team duals, a game in which the quickest trigger finger always prevails (unless you are oober nasty with fragmentation grenades).

as for the marriage issue, i think the solution is obvious. i mean, it is scientifically proven that god wants everyone to be homosexual so why would we even marry someone in the first place?
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#39
06-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileLaughFun View Post
well as for the drinking issue, i really dont understand why you would ever drink alcohol because that would interfere with your ability to get head shots and beat downs in halo. obviously your reaction time would slow down and that would certainly not help during a game of team duals, a game in which the quickest trigger finger always prevails (unless you are oober nasty with fragmentation grenades). as for the marriage issue, i think the solution is obvious. i mean, it is scientifically proven that god wants everyone to be homosexual so why would we even marry someone in the first place?
This post may just be the greatest failure in attempt to be comedic that h3f has ever seen. Congrats. Try to get your post count up somewhere else nub.
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#40
06-14-2009
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Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
This post may just be the greatest failure in attempt to be comedic that h3f has ever seen. Congrats. Try to get your post count up somewhere else nub.
well i certainly dont see anything funny about god, alcohol, marriage and halo 3. maybe you should go rate your comedians elsewhere, you can start at a comedy club
 

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