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SizZLe
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#21
05-29-2009
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Very nice write up Delay. I'm really busy right now but I'll definitely respond to your post sometime tonight.
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#22
05-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
Suck it :P.

Just answering a question as best I can to help a fellow brother out, didn't mean to be arrogant or prideful in any way. Sorry if you felt that.
Can we get a post on the marriage part, i'm rather interested.
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#23
05-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SizZLe View Post
Very nice write up Delay. I'm really busy right now but I'll definitely respond to your post sometime tonight.
I tried to make it as precise as possible, I tend to go off on tangents occasionally. No rush, just reply whenever you can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iSlayer View Post
Can we get a post on the marriage part, i'm rather interested.
Nice to see some interest. As far as myself, yes I would love to eventually post about that, but I want to deal with the alcohol portion first. I am sure Sizzle's reply will allow for some more discussion.
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#24
05-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SizZLe View Post
Very nice write up Delay. I'm really busy right now but I'll definitely respond to your post sometime tonight.
word.

Can't believe you forgot to mention Lot in your argument, delay. ha.
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#25
05-29-2009
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brb need to be like sizzle and look for an online thesaurus for big words.



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#26
05-29-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
Sorry for the fashionably late arrival Sizzle, I seldom visit this section of the forum anymore, it just seemed to die recently lol.
I know what you mean.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
Anyways, to address your questions, let me start with the drinking alcohol first. You have to understand that drinking alcohol is not a sin, now that is not to say that becoming drunk is not a sin, it most certainly is. But a mere glass of wine with dinner or at a wedding or party, or grabbing a beer with a friend or out on a Friday night, nothing wrong with that at all.
Exactly, so why do most christians believe otherwise?



Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4, 7, 14; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4; Isaiah 5:11, 22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”.
Those are good scriptures to refute the popular opinion among the majority of Christians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).
The last sentence is beyond difficult, more like impossible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
As for the whole Jesus changing water into wine incident everyone is discussing. It does seem that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today. Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).
Whenever this argument is used, some people like to say that Jesus never actually drank the wine he made. If only they knew otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
So basically in a nut shell, I would say that drinking alcohol is not a sin, it is drinking excess alcohol that undoubtedly becomes a sin. Temperance and moderation and self-control are characteristics the bible harps on, and definitely characteristics Christians should strive towards. Nothing wrong with alcohol as long as you don't abuse it. The reason many Christians say 'never drink alcohol' and 'all alcohol is a sin' is probably either because they themselves cannot control their drinking consumption, or because they know that too much of it can inevitably lead to sin.
That's what I don't like. They turn a recommendation into biblical law. Anything can be addictive.

Didn't really have much to say here since I agree with everything you said, but I feel like the marriage issue will be a bit more controversial.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigtribe View Post
brb need to be like sizzle and look for an online thesaurus for big words.
Right.
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#27
05-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigtribe View Post
brb need to be like sizzle and look for an online thesaurus for big words.
lol like what big words?

Recommended? I think that was one of the biggest words he used.

:ass:
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#28
05-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SizZLe View Post
Exactly, so why do most christians believe otherwise?
Honestly, I really do not know. My perception of it is that the majority of Christians who believe otherwise are the super extreme conservative Christians. They also tend to believe that dancing and smoking are bad too. Which would lead to the same argument from us, saying that dancing and smoking in themselves are certainly not bad, but I suppose they could lead to sin. If you are reckless/careless/stupid lol.

To me it is ridiculous too, because then where do you decide to draw the line? Then why not say going out into public is sinning, because you can see people doing things that will be tempting, or you can be blatantly asked by someone to do something bad (peer pressure, etc.). On and on and on...

Quote:
That's what I don't like. They turn a recommendation into biblical law. Anything can be addictive.
Exactly true, glad you at least are able to realize that. Very mature of you.
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#29
05-30-2009
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if you are going to join a religion and follow its teachings you should follow and interpret it strictly

you can't just decide to no follow some of its rules and disobey others

moderate christianity makes no sense
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#30
05-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Mike View Post
if you are going to join a religion and follow its teachings you should follow and interpret it strictly

you can't just decide to no follow some of its rules and disobey others

moderate christianity makes no sense

No.

The only reason "moderate" christians exist is because you have religious extremist turning flips at the sight of an ipod or anything involving a beat.

At the end of the day it all boils down to inerpretation. If christians were to follow your suggestion, "thou shalt not kill" would be completely impossible and stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
Honestly, I really do not know. My perception of it is that the majority of Christians who believe otherwise are the super extreme conservative Christians. They also tend to believe that dancing and smoking are bad too. Which would lead to the same argument from us, saying that dancing and smoking in themselves are certainly not bad, but I suppose they could lead to sin. If you are reckless/careless/stupid lol.

To me it is ridiculous too, because then where do you decide to draw the line? Then why not say going out into public is sinning, because you can see people doing things that will be tempting, or you can be blatantly asked by someone to do something bad (peer pressure, etc.). On and on and on...



Exactly true, glad you at least are able to realize that. Very mature of you.
Thanks.
 

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