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Nv1ncible
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#1
05-06-2014
Default Confidence and Humility

This year has been a lot about self-improvement for me. Slowly, I'm learning to be more objective about my character, personality, etc, and as I come across things that I don't like, I try to make genuine efforts to change them.

One of the things that I've been struggling with lately is this idea of confidence. I think for most of my life, I thought of myself as a confident person. I knew who I was, what I stood for, and believed I had a confident mindset. Yet, I think it's more apparent to me now that I never actually was confident. I mean, sure, there were things that I was good at, and with that came some amount of confidence. A good example would be test taking in school. I think because I was naturally gifted with a good memory and that I had a track record of doing well in school, I always had some amount of confidence when it came to test taking when there were a lot of my classmates who genuinely dreaded testing.

Anyway, I'm kind of at a crossroads, because more and more lately I feel like I am not that confident of a person. In some cases I'm ok with that. For example, it seems like the more I try to learn about something of a complex nature (example might be theories of economics), the less I actually know, and strangely I actually take some comfort in that. I'm much more likely now to concede that I do NOT know something rather than trying to convince others that I do.

You know how there are those people that just kind of always think they have an answer for everything? I'm not even saying the arrogant pricks who try to debate everything in an attempt to convince people of their viewpoint. I'm talking about pretty ignorant people that just happen to have a pretty strong confidence that what they believe is actually right, rather than saying "Hmm, I guess I'm not sure" or "I haven't really given it much thought".

Well, I see a lot of people around me, young guys my age, that carry around this kind of confidence, and for me, it's really hard to not interpret it as arrogance. And of course I see that as a negative characteristic, but in terms of relationships and women, it seems to be interpreted the exact opposite: a positive characteristic. The fact that I find very little humility in these guys doesn't change the fact that they're the ones who have no issues making friends, banging girls, and generally having a good old time.

So I guess my question is, what do you guys think about confidence? And what do you think about humility? Are they mutually exclusive? Is confidence important? Is humility?
Rhis
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#2
05-06-2014
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too often do i see people that are seemingly extroverted only apply a "fake it till you make it" mindset. i myself have found great comfort in being both as genuine as possible and as careful as possible not to put myself in situations i know i am going to hate. hell, i lived in a frat for a year and have been at the center of the douchbaggery that is the coked out trust fund baby that sees college as a vacation.

but i want to touch on this notion of consideration, and how much of a 'good old time' is actually being had. when you don't have to go through growing stages in life and have certain types of securities (financial especially, but perhaps also emotionally) it is much easier to act without concern of the opinions of those around you, or a combination of arrogance and ignorance. i think humility ties in well here because these arrogant people have no such concept and it is what puts them in the "world revolves around me" attitude.

as to why this seems to translate to relationships and women, i think it is important to keep in mind the state of life of a person who is willfully ignorant. while certain aspects of their life may have peaked over others, there are almost undoubtably flaws to somebody that is unable to expand their minds to generalized ideas.

the same idea isnt exclusive to men, and can/should be applied to women as well. aside from the fact that people gravitate around who is seemingly the most attractive or seemingly the most fun, i think what is most important is the context in which these things are being judged. are the people we're looking at really the population at large or just the young men and women that think there isn't another way to spend a weekend then at a bar?

i typed this all out super fast cause stobs is messaging me to play a game, i'd love to come back and touch this up later.



Regards,

Last edited by Rhis; 05-06-2014 at 09:35 PM.
Nv1ncible
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#3
05-06-2014
Default

Good thoughts Rhis, your perspective is interesting, especially considering the frat environment you lived in. I appreciate the time you took to post, would definitely love to hear more if you decide to come back into this thread later.

I want to add more, but I don't want to flood the thread with me responding to every post. Would love to hear what others have to say about this.
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#4
05-07-2014
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i do hope you realize the answers you'll get are basically rehearsed in that this question is presupposing a basically protestant education and ethic, meaning a literally incorporated practice of humility, what with humble, Christ-like body behavior and censorship of lowly bodily parts... the vice of pride, which is different from confidence but bound up with it through learnt guilt... etc.

you could not ask an ndembu person the same question, the translation would not work. what has been, is being, and will be slapped onto a screen itt is probably not a personal or intellectual take on confidence or humility but rather an expression of the universal itself

Last edited by PM; 05-07-2014 at 06:38 AM.
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#5
05-07-2014
Default

A stray thought or two and of course some quotes for you to mull over.

Quote:
I see a lot of people around me, young guys my age, that carry around this kind of confidence, and for me, it's really hard to not interpret it as arrogance.

And of course I see that as a negative characteristic, but in terms of relationships and women, it seems to be interpreted the exact opposite: a positive characteristic. The fact that I find very little humility in these guys doesn't change the fact that they're the ones who have no issues making friends, banging girls, and generally having a good old time.
Quote:
having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
Quote:
ar·ro·gance [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority
and so on.

Now, keeping in mind the bolded word, ask yourself where the arrogance is coming from and what is really at stake.

To quote my go-to guy on all matters of personal growth, politics, literally everything ("what's wrong Dave can't you think for yourself?!" the peanut gallery will say, convinced that that somehow makes the words wrong):
Quote:
When someone hates something that to outside observers looks exactly like themselves in every way, you should quickly consult a French book to see if they don't have a word for that phenomenon, and they do, it's called projection.

...

you should understand what projection is. It sounds like you project unwanted feelings onto another person, which is both wrong and impossible. It's not an action, it's a problem of perception. The unwanted feelings don't make sense coming from someone like you, so you conclude they must be coming from the other person.

To use the frequent example of "homophobia": a guy feels gay impulses and can't "handle it" but he doesn't get rid of them by putting them onto someone else, he confuses them as coming from someone else. He smells gayness, "Where is it coming from? Me? Impossible! Jesus washed my feet. Must be that guy." Sorry, wildman, whoever smelt it dealt it. Projection is the most primitive of defenses, circa age 2, and the description should make it clear it is a narcissistic defense: one's perception of the world is inextricably, concretely the result of one's inner states. There is no "objectivity" possible.

The purpose of projection is not to get rid of the feelings, but to explain their presence, to defend the self against a label: "I'm not gay..... even if I have gay sex once in a while." The point isn't to avoid gay sex, the gayness isn't intolerable to them-- e.g. observe the high hat Christians caught in various rest stops across our land-- but even thought they've committed the act, it doesn't affect their identity.

My use of gay as an example is unfortunate because half of you will see "gay" as "bad," but the projected impulse doesn't have to be "bad", merely incongruous to the desired identity that you are trying to solidify. If you doubt this, consider the sullen engineering student at a party, "I'm not like these superficial sorority girls with perfect smiles and condomless sex" who then perceives great happiness in these people.


You could be happy, too, dude, if you weren't so invested in not being happy. If you want a partial understanding of why 19-21 Saudi/Egyptian terrorists could live in America and enjoy our strip clubs but still want to crumble our architecture, there you go.
Spoiler!

Last edited by davobrosia; 05-07-2014 at 08:36 AM.
Nv1ncible
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#6
05-07-2014
Default

So the arrogance comes from me. The reason I see it in others is because I can't see it in myself, and mistake its source? If that's true, I guess that presents me with a bit of a problem then. If others are around me and perceive me as arrogant, are they projecting, or am I really arrogant? What about when I am in the company of people I perceive as humble, am I then humble at that moment? Or is projection only ever applicable with negative characteristics?

The next question seems to be, how does one stop projecting? Will it be that the moment I stop viewing others as arrogant I will then cease to be arrogant myself?
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#7
05-07-2014
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If you wear a shirt that says "CAPTAIN ASSHOLE" on it (yes, all caps) then it will probably bring down projection a smidge.
Rhis
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#8
05-07-2014
Default

well i think with that comes a bit of acceptance. i think that if you are comfortable being genuine and walking a straight path despite who gets in your way, you are definitely going to come off as arrogant to some people. the question then becomes whether or not you should care when you're being judged for possibly being arrogant to a person arrogant in a different manner.

the judges that judge the judges doing the judging.



Regards,
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#9
05-07-2014
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Humility and confidence must/can go hand in hand and I'm not sure I even see them as being complete opposites, but surely they are, right?
A confident person does not fear his own failures. An arrogant person does not accept his own failures. Therefore, both humility and confidence are important. Confidence without humility is Arrogance. Humility without confidence is self-deprecation.

Projection or not, some people simply are arrogant. Recognizing this doesn't necessary indicate that you are projecting your feelings onto another person, even if you are arrogant yourself (knowingly or unknowingly). Does the idea of other people viewing you as arrogant scare you? Or do you think it's possible that you in fact are arrogant? If so, the projecting theory has been proven wrong in this case hasn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nv1ncible View Post
The next question seems to be, how does one stop projecting? Will it be that the moment I stop viewing others as arrogant I will then cease to be arrogant myself?
It's the other way around. Once you stop being arrogant you stop projecting it onto others. It comes down to whether or not you accept that you might in fact be the one who is arrogant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PM View Post
i do hope you realize the answers you'll get are basically rehearsed in that this question is presupposing a basically protestant education and ethic, meaning a literally incorporated practice of humility, what with humble, Christ-like body behavior and censorship of lowly bodily parts... the vice of pride, which is different from confidence but bound up with it through learnt guilt... etc.

you could not ask an ndembu person the same question, the translation would not work. what has been, is being, and will be slapped onto a screen itt is probably not a personal or intellectual take on confidence or humility but rather an expression of the universal itself

Last edited by Klima; 05-07-2014 at 11:11 AM.
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#10
05-07-2014
Default

what part of that did you not understand
 

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