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Cursed Lemon
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#11
09-24-2008
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Originally Posted by JCAbernathy View Post
The jobs that people hate will be removed through technology. I understand what you are saying, becuase when I first thought about the idea of labor expression, I didn't quite see how it all fit in. But from what I have learned, the removal of materialism and the "psychological epiphany" are essential in this becoming a reality.
...How is somebody going to express themselves through landscaping if landscaping is done by robots?


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#12
09-24-2008
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...How is somebody going to express themselves through landscaping if landscaping is done by robots?
Who is to say "landscaping" will be done robots. I was under the impression you were talking about more disliked jobs. Jobs like, manual labor within factories, janitorial positions, etc. You seem to be not truly understanding the idea of expression of labor. People are not set into specific job titles anyway within a MC society. For example, one day a person feels they want to teach, they go teach. But the next day they feel they want to provide good for a community and do some social work. It is all about what you feel like doing that makes you happy. The key word within Communism is commune, so therefore everyone is in a socially equal community that is there to help each other. Finding people to do a specific job wouldn't be the problem, the main problem is removing material fixation and ushering in the psychological epiphany that is needed for this to happen.

P.S. Was the condending "..." necessary?

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#13
09-24-2008
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Originally Posted by JCAbernathy View Post
Who is to say "landscaping" will be done robots. I was under the impression you were talking about more disliked jobs. Jobs like, manual labor within factories, janitorial positions, etc. You seem to be not truly understanding the idea of expression of labor. People are not set into specific job titles anyway within a MC society. For example, one day a person feels they want to teach, they go teach. But the next day they feel they want to provide good for a community and do some social work. It is all about what you feel like doing that makes you happy. The key word within Communism is commune, so therefore everyone is in a socially equal community that is there to help each other. Finding people to do a specific job wouldn't be the problem, the main problem is removing material fixation and ushering in the psychological epiphany that is needed for this to happen.
I don't know how to teach. Nor do I know how to assemble a car, fix a computer, repair a roof, perform heart surgery, give therapy, etc. Do you?

Removal of material fixation can very, very easily be done under capitalism. It's a psychological problem, not an economic one.


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Last edited by Cursed Lemon; 09-24-2008 at 05:10 PM.
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#14
09-24-2008
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I don't know how to teach. Nor do I know how to assemble a car, fix a computer, repair a roof, perform heart surgery, give therpay, etc. Do you?

Removal of material fixation can very, very easily be done under capitalism. It's a psychological problem, not an economic one.
If you did like to do all of those things, it would be as simple as going to school and learning to do them. Repair a roof? Look, the whole idea behind my post was to point out that whatever you like to do, it is obtainable and easy to accomplish.

Materialism fixation will never be removed under a capitalistic society. Period.

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#15
09-24-2008
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If you did like to do all of those things, it would be as simple as going to school and learning to do them. Repair a roof? Look, the whole idea behind my post was to point out that whatever you like to do, it is obtainable and easy to accomplish.
You cannot possibly be ignoring the concept of advancement through competition.


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#16
09-24-2008
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You cannot possibly be ignoring the concept of advancement through competition.
Advancement will occur either way. Yes, capitalism promotes compeition hereby indirectly advanceing technology. But the problem with advancement through compeition is that it leaves out other people that could just as easily provide something to the table that aren't as lucky to make it a reality in a class divded society which capitalism brings.

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#17
09-24-2008
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material fixation dosent root from capitalism. it roots from natural, irreversible, primal human greed. it works against us in some cases and works for us in others. capitalism is the manifestation of this "weakness" of ours in economic means. its not perfect. it can be manipulated but nothing is perfect and neither would communism, communism would be worse because it tries to eliminate our greed, yet it is tied up in millions of years of evolution. trying to revert this greed on working towards a goal in a society or working in a specific job field is way to complex and to much to ask from a society
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#18
09-24-2008
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Originally Posted by JCAbernathy View Post
Advancement will occur either way. Yes, capitalism promotes compeition hereby indirectly advanceing technology. But the problem with advancement through compeition is that it leaves out other people that could just as easily provide something to the table that aren't as lucky to make it a reality in a class divded society which capitalism brings.
and in a good working capitalist economy, the ones that do not survive are those that did not have scarcity power. scarcity power is: scarcity in location, scarcity in a good product (or prices), scarcity in a good service and customer service, scarcity in a good idea and scarcity in literally a good business. so theoretically, those that have something to bring to the table would be able to because there is scarcity in a good idea and those that fall behind or have no scarcity just are weeded out. and to think that in "MC" these inefficiencies would be destroyed in ludicrous
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#19
09-24-2008
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and in a good working capitalist economy, the ones that do not survive are those that did not have scarcity power. scarcity power is: scarcity in location, scarcity in a good product (or prices), scarcity in a good service and customer service, scarcity in a good idea and scarcity in literally a good business. so theoretically, those that have something to bring to the table would be able to because there is scarcity in a good idea and those that fall behind or have no scarcity just are weeded out. and to think that in "MC" these inefficiencies would be destroyed in ludicrous
Scarcity is not present in MC. For MC to even occur, the human race has to be able to remove scarcity via Capitalism. Capitalism is just a pregamer, eventually the proletariate will rise. If the recent events in the news with the economy slump and the consolidation of bsuinesses via buyouts, pretty soon there will be the fewer corporations(but LARGER) governing/controlling the many, just as Marx says.

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#20
09-24-2008
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For me it breaks down to two main reasons: incentive, and relying on humans. First of all, even the "best" form of communism doesn't offer rewards for individuals who work harder, or for higher education or training. I feel that it also makes entrepreneurship a doorway the size of a pin-hole. It also eleminates competition. In addition , we find out quickly what happens when you trust the people to fulfill their obligations...in fact there's a crisis happening right now because of it.


 

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