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davobrosia
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#11
11-10-2008
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Originally Posted by TuNice View Post
So our own personal identities are only made through other people? HOW
It's a binary relationship. We form Self by differentiating from Other.
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#12
11-18-2008
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You're asking the wrong question here, its not what is identity but why people align themselves with specific identities in the first place and how it affects there social interaction and consequent actions. For one to acquire identity they participate in collective meanings ie religion, ethnicity etc and therefore relatively stable understandings of the self are constructed. By placing meanings to alternative objects such as the other you prescribe the meaning for yourself based on what you are not. so i may define myself as British because i am not American, french, german or any other nationality. Another example is the differing identity within Identity and the conflict between Sunni and Shi'a. Sunni and Shi'a muslims construct there identity on a certain belief about the successors of the prophet and they identify themselves through the fact that they dont belong to the other's belief. With identity an intersubjective meaning is created where you act differently to those you view as an enemy or as a friend.
Good analysis of the theory of identity is analysed through constructivism so if you wanna check out in better knowledge and detail there are a few different books i can point you in the direction of such as Alexander Wendts social theory of international politics, also a journal by Ted Hopf called the promise of constructivism in international relations approaches the effects of identity on foreign policy. Generally identity is used to ensure predictability and order as well as a certain extent of stability.
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#13
11-20-2008
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I believe that self-definition is primarily determined by social class.

The question that you are asking is a somewhat vague one... I'm not quite sure which category of self-definition you are asking. There is: economic self-definition, social self-definition, intelligence self-definition and so forth..

But just for the sake of argument, I'm going to say something about self-definition in terms of economic value. If you'd like to hear my thoughts on any other type, just ask and I'll elaborate on what I think.

I think that economic self-defintition is, for the most part, a misconstrued context of what we want ourselves to be... Most people don't think about the difference between the "upper-middle" and the "lower-middle" class... And instead, they define themselves as "middle-class Americans" because that is what other people define themselves as. I've noticed that a lot of people who don't live in the best environment will still consider themselves as lower class just because they know that other people have it worse off than they do. But the truth is... Middle-class can be defined, as I already stated, as upper and lower: The upper-middle class consists of 25% of the population, according to the 2000 U.S. census- it's the lawyers, doctors, engineers, and so forth that make $75,000 - $150,000. The lower middle class consists of- individuals who are part of lower level professionals (clerks/sales/HR/jobs towards the lower end of a corporation), these jobs pull in $45,000 - $75,000 (again, according to the U.S census).

If you think about all of the people that you know who consider themselves "middle class", do all of them really fit into this category? For me, the answer is no. Most single mom's don't pull in that kind of money working the jobs that they do. For a lot of them, the way that they make up for it is by buying the clothing and other material goods that the upper-middle class buys because it makes them feel like they are part of that "crowd"...

As they consider themselves to be part of the middle class though, they are hurting their own economic value by trying to "fit in".

I am not saying that they are necessarily lying about their status, but more so just trying to cover up the difficulties that they face in their everyday lives... A lot of the individuals that I know who fit into this category are actually part of what is called the "working class" which isn't the middle class at all...

The term "middle class" has turned into a norm, and people want to fit into that norm.

So to answer your question: "Is there a way to accurately or objectively define yourself?"

There is no clear way to accurately define yourself... You can use standards, and desires as a measure of what you want to consider yourself. But when it comes to the actual definition of yourself, for the most part, it is misconstrued by what people consider "normal" and "proper" ways that society functions, and the qualities in which people fit in certain categories...

I hope that this didn't come off as aggressive to anyone, or any one family that might be struggling with this... This is just facts that I have used to form an idea of modern American philosophy on self-definition...

I'm sorry if I didn't answer your question the way that you were hoping


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Deadly Buni
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#14
11-20-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davobrosia View Post
It's a binary relationship. We form Self by differentiating from Other.
I'd like to say that we form our identity through a group. Faustians and loners included.



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#15
11-20-2008
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Originally Posted by Deadly Buni View Post
I'd like to say that we form our identity through a group. Faustians and loners included.
The idea is that you construct your identity through the groups that you do not belong to. As you stated a loner constructs the idea of a loner because he doesnt associate with those he views as popular. You cannot define yourself until you define those around you, and the way you define those around you influences how you act in a social environment.
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#16
11-20-2008
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Identity is simple: you're identity is your consciousness of yourself - rather, the consciousness that you are not others. You become self conscious and form an identity when you realize you aren't your mother, or the others around you.
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