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Darth Hulk
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#1
10-20-2006
Default Alternative ideas about the beginning

So, I've been thinking a little bit lately about the beginning of this planet. I keep thinking how weird it is that all of this exists and then I began thinking about why and how and when and where and all of that stuff. Then I thought about the different explanations I've seen come from movies and television. Then I thought about the explanations that come from religion. It was at this point that I realized that many of the explanations I've heard about it sound equally plausible if not more plausible than anything I've heard from religion.

If you've ever seen/read the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", then you might understand where I'm coming from. The idea there lacks complete falsifiability so that if you sit and think about you won't come up with any definitive conclusion. I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it, but the basic premise is that Earth is a big computer and we are part of its operation system and everything. There are some more details about how it was built and all that, but you get the point. I think that it makes way more sense to me to think that we are part of a big computer program that has been running for a really long time and still has the bugs being worked out of it. The idea that someone with infinite and unfathomable power created the planet "for us" doesn't make nearly as much sense. The "creator" to me sounds more like I was last year in C/UNIX programming where I had a big program due and I kinda BS'd it to the point where it didn't really work that well. I think that whoever made this planet was doing so for a school project. Probably in the 3rd or 4th grade and they would've gotten a D minus. The teacher would've said nice try, but you should probably be staying after school for help with your planet making skills.

EDIT: The above isn't my official idea of the beginning of Earth, I'm still working out the kinks in my head.

I'm wondering if any of you have ever seen something on TV or in a movie regarding Earth's origins that you thought could make a little bit of sense if you bought into the idea for a little bit.


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#2
10-20-2006
Default

I dont have any theories but I always knew Douglas Adams was a genius.
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#3
10-20-2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Hulk View Post
I think that it makes way more sense to me to think that we are part of a big computer program that has been running for a really long time and still has the bugs being worked out of it. The idea that someone with infinite and unfathomable power created the planet "for us" doesn't make nearly as much sense.
TMNT
Hulk, I apologize, but If you honestly think that a complex program that designed, implemented, and runs itself is a better explanation for the existence of earth than an individual that designed and created earth, than this discussion will not be fruitful.

Even the simplest, most archaic programs had to have someone sit down and put them together. Even the work that you handed in that might have been sub-standard, had to have the effort of someone to put it together.

Even a game as simple as Pong had a creator.

I know you said that you're still working the kinks out, however you seemed pretty convinced. This is pretty much like every dicussion involving creation - people will believe what they want to believe, not neccessarily what is the most reasonable.

Like I said before, I apologize, but this seems highly unreasonable. The movie was entertaining, but I take it as the science fiction that it was.
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#4
10-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpoint View Post
Hulk, I apologize, but If you honestly think that a complex program that designed, implemented, and runs itself is a better explanation for the existence of earth than an individual that designed and created earth, than this discussion will not be fruitful.

Even the simplest, most archaic programs had to have someone sit down and put them together. Even the work that you handed in that might have been sub-standard, had to have the effort of someone to put it together.

Even a game as simple as Pong had a creator.

I know you said that you're still working the kinks out, however you seemed pretty convinced. This is pretty much like every dicussion involving creation - people will believe what they want to believe, not neccessarily what is the most reasonable.

Like I said before, I apologize, but this seems highly unreasonable. The movie was entertaining, but I take it as the science fiction that it was.

Explain why it's less credible than other, more accepted explanations. I'm aware that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but neither does anything else I've heard. So I'd like to hear why I should think anything else happened.


TMNT

Last edited by Darth Hulk; 10-20-2006 at 01:22 AM.
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#5
10-20-2006
Default

From A Brief History of Time -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hawking
A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?"

"You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down."
I could buy that.
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#6
10-20-2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Hulk View Post
Explain why it's less credible than other, more accepted explanations. I'm aware that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but neither does anything else I've heard. So I'd like to hear why I should think anything else happened.


TMNT
For me, this isn't an issue of more widely accepted explanations, or anything involving popularity.

You admit that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense - and I acknowledge that.

However you also say that other things you've heard (possibly along the lines of creation) don't make sense either. This I disagree with. Like I said earlier, this discussion of beginnings these days is simply an issue where people choose which belief system they want to follow, as oppossed to the most reasonable conclusion.

Now one would say that creation is not a reasonable conclusion to them - I disagree. There isnt one facet in life today, not business, construction, entertainment, or execution in which we accept or expect production without a producer or process of producing. Not for the simplest or most complex things we have. Why should we assume any different from the earth - it itself being a complex entity?

So to me, the conclusion of a creator is reasonable and plausible. Now as far as, why you should think that anything else happened, thats up to you.

For me, this is a logical, simple, and reasonable explanation which doesn't run me around in circles. If you feel that you need something that is more complex and difficult to grasp - than that is your decision. Like I said, in terms of peoples beliefs and what is said about creation, people believe what they want.
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#7
10-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpoint View Post
For me, this isn't an issue of more widely accepted explanations, or anything involving popularity.

You admit that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense - and I acknowledge that.

However you also say that other things you've heard (possibly along the lines of creation) don't make sense either. This I disagree with. Like I said earlier, this discussion of beginnings these days is simply an issue where people choose which belief system they want to follow, as oppossed to the most reasonable conclusion.

Now one would say that creation is not a reasonable conclusion to them - I disagree. There isnt one facet in life today, not business, construction, entertainment, or execution in which we accept or expect production without a producer or process of producing. Not for the simplest or most complex things we have. Why should we assume any different from the earth - it itself being a complex entity?

So to me, the conclusion of a creator is reasonable and plausible. Now as far as, why you should think that anything else happened, thats up to you.

For me, this is a logical, simple, and reasonable explanation which doesn't run me around in circles. If you feel that you need something that is more complex and difficult to grasp - than that is your decision. Like I said, in terms of peoples beliefs and what is said about creation, people believe what they want.

You are misreading or misinterpretting what I'm saying. I'm not saying the Earth wasn't created by one individual. In fact if you read what I said again, I said almost exactly what you said. I drew comparisons between Earth and a computer program. I won't type it again since I already did it earlier but here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Hulk
I think that whoever made this planet was doing so for a school project. Probably in the 3rd or 4th grade and they would've gotten a D minus. The teacher would've said nice try, but you should probably be staying after school for help with your planet making skills.
My point is not that the planet is a big computer program, it's that some people, I feel, are giving too much credit to this "creator" whoever he may be. How do we know there aren't others of his kind (I'm inclined to think there are) that are much much better at this planet creation deal then he is? I wouldn't find it too hard to accept that he is part of a whole civilization of people that in their spare time create planets. This one would probably rate a 6.3 out of 10 in their world, I've always thought. I also think that this was made in what would be the equivilant of our 3rd grade. I know I said 3rd or 4th earlier, but it's definitely 3rd grade the more I think about it. We're probably about 6000 years or so from being qualified for what they would consider our 4th grade.



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#8
10-20-2006
Default

Ok, I took your whole planet -school project thing as an analogy or example, not the belief itself - my bad.

However, what makes this planet rate so low out of ten ( I mean, is this basically just all part of your theory)

Do you have anything that leads you to believe this, or is it simply because to you it sounds just as credible as commmon beliefes?

EDIT: To answer your previous initial question, no, nothing from sci-fi makes sense to me in explaining the beginning
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#9
10-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpoint View Post
Ok, I took your whole planet -school project thing as an analogy or example, not the belief itself - my bad.

However, what makes this planet rate so low out of ten ( I mean, is this basically just all part of your theory)

Do you have anything that leads you to believe this, or is it simply because to you it sounds just as credible as commmon beliefes?

EDIT: To answer your previous initial question, no, nothing from sci-fi makes sense to me in explaining the beginning

If I were to rate ita 10 out of 10, that would mean it was as good as it could be. If you think that is an appropriate rating, I would like to get in contact with your drug dealer, because mine has apparantly been ripping me off. In my opinion I was being generous with my rating. It just so happened I had somehow managed to go a whoe 10 minutes without being reminded why our society is going down the crapper. But fear not, we still have a lot of time to improve things I reckon, and maybe our creator can get things in shape in time for the final exam.


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#10
10-20-2006
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I'm not going to act like I know how the Universe was created, but as far as 'ideas' go, I'm a big fan of the String Theory's version of the beginning of the Universe.

I haven't ruled out the idea that the Universe was created by a super-natural being.

If I were to postulate my own wacked-out explanation for the Universe as we know it, it would go a little something like this: every human is just on neuron inside the brain of some giant creature, and the sum of our reactions on Earth, dictate the giant creatures current mood (of sorts). We interpret 'discoveries' as being things we've learned, but in 'reality', it's just the giant creature learning something, or figuring something out. Asteroid impacts on Earth (which we've observed) are, in reality, just the giant getting kicked in the head and suffering a concussion. When humanity suffers from a massive plague, it's just the giant getting Meningitis. I could go on-and-on, but you're a smart guy Hulk, and I'm sure you get the idea.

What's really scary is that I could write a book about this, publish it, and before I know it, I've got people knocking at my door asking for ways we can help keep the giant healthy. LOL!
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
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. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
 

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