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lookinfor1v1
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#21
01-16-2008
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So, we cannot say anything about god because it/he is beyond our ability to understand, yet lookinfor1v1 feels perfectly comfortable making an absurd number of assumptions about said creature. Why is it acceptable to say that we cannot understand how god has been around forever, but it's not acceptable to say that we do not understand what existed before The Big Bang without some moron claiming we're wrong?

I can't beleive you're so incredibly ignorant about this, yet feel "perfectly comfortable" in openly debating it.
The Bible, in Christianity, revelaed to us what God is "like", to some degree.
From there, scholars such as Thomas Aquinas, Augustine of HIppo, etc have deduced the characteristics of God, and thus we have some limited knowledge of him.
So yes, I do feel perfectly comfortable, not assuming, but re-stating certain facts about God which have long been agreed upon by the most famous of Theologians.They base these facts, according to what God revealed to us through the Bible, and make logical conclusions from what has been revealed.
Yet to attempt to understand how some of the characteristics "make perfect sense", is just stupidity beyond words.
God, an infinite being, and CANNOT be fully understood by man, a finite being.
If we could understand God fully, that would not be a God at all.
However, we can say certain things about God including:
God, the maker of time, is not subject to such a law.
Therefore, we cannot associate God with time-bound questions b/c he is beyond such a thing.
This is a reality, that may seem confusing, and maybe "illogical" to thoes of lesser intelligence.
Yet if we were able to comprehend EXACTLY how God is exempt from time (thus we CANNOT ask an illogical question such as: did God always exist? - a time-bound question), yet we can grasp the basics of it.


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It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists.
Mohandas Gandhi

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
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Last edited by lookinfor1v1; 01-16-2008 at 09:56 AM.
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#22
01-16-2008
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Fun fact for the day

My environmental ethics professor, a scholar in both that and religion, commented on an essay "The Historical Roots of Our Ecological Crisis (1967)" we were reading by Lynn White about how ALL of technology and science (modern science) we know today is attributed solely to Christianity; the main point of the essay was that modern technology has produced many good things, but also an environmental crisis (which White says if that's true, Christians have a heavy burden of guilt....understatement).

But that's not the interesting part.

What he was explaining is the term "natural science."

God created Earth and all that jazz, then Adam and, as an afterthought, Eve to keep man from being lonely.

Quote:
Man named all the animals, thus establishing his dominance over them. God planned all of this explicitly for man's benefit and rule: no item in the physical creation had any purpose save to serve man's purposes. And, although man's body is made of clay, he is not simply part of nature: he is made in God's image
That last part is important. God, as a nonphysical being, did not create Adam's physical body like God's own. What, then, does this passage mean?

Theologians believe that, because this trait is what separates us from all else in the animal kingdom, what was created in "God's image" is our capacity for reason -- "to think like God"

I point this out because the inconsistencies of "we're not capable of fathoming the whathaveyous of a being of higher intelligence" or "our reasoning is limited' or "God supercedes human understanding/reasoning" make me a sad panda.
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lookinfor1v1
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#23
01-17-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceGuy View Post
Fun fact for the day



My environmental ethics professor, a scholar in both that and religion, commented on an essay "The Historical Roots of Our Ecological Crisis (1967)" we were reading by Lynn White about how ALL of technology and science (modern science) we know today is attributed solely to Christianity; the main point of the essay was that modern technology has produced many good things, but also an environmental crisis (which White says if that's true, Christians have a heavy burden of guilt....understatement).

But that's not the interesting part.

What he was explaining is the term "natural science."

God created Earth and all that jazz, then Adam and, as an afterthought, Eve to keep man from being lonely.



That last part is important. God, as a nonphysical being, did not create Adam's physical body like God's own. What, then, does this passage mean?

Theologians believe that, because this trait is what separates us from all else in the animal kingdom, what was created in "God's image" is our capacity for reason -- "to think like God"

I point this out because the inconsistencies of "we're not capable of fathoming the whathaveyous of a being of higher intelligence" or "our reasoning is limited' or "God supercedes human understanding/reasoning" make me a sad panda.
I think you have some misconceptions and errors about what the passage refers to when it refers to man being made in God's image and likeness.
This is a common mistake among people who aren't particularly informed about the meaning behind certain passages in the Bible.
God endowed man with intellectual ability which was and is far superior to that of any animal. Man was thus made in his likeness, not only to 'love God and obey Him' , but also to do God's work on earth . to be His regent and govern the creation in co-operation with his Creator. Man only, of all God's creatures, has a spirit or God-consciousness, that is,
man has had inborn conscience, which he perceives in his spirit.


II JumpiN II


It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists.
Mohandas Gandhi

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard

Last edited by lookinfor1v1; 01-17-2008 at 09:47 AM.
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#24
01-17-2008
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I believe the bible said that their moral awareness, for evil, was a product of eating the apple? I could be wrong seeing as you've mentioned several a time that ButtHair, and myself, are ignorant to everything but making toast.
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#25
01-17-2008
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Back on the subject of the origin of the universe.
It has been deduced by many scholars, and many people today, that for all of the physical universe as we know it, there MUST have been an uncaused cause (Something beyond time, space, and matter) for the physical reality of the universe to exist as we know it.
When you regress back through time, and into the Big-Bang some billions of years ago, you eventually arrive at the conclusion that SOMETHING had to be there, even before matter, energy, space, and time.
Because nothing comes from nothing.
Therefore, something had to be there for matter and energy to exist, and for the big-bang to have been initiated from matter and energy, there obviously needed to be a prior cause.
Once you begin to understnd this concept, you realize the origin of the universe isn't all that confusing, and you cease to delvge into unsupported theories about parallel universes, and infinite ammount of chances for the universe to have been originated.
I'll say this again, even if there WAS an infinite ammount of time before the universe came to be (which is obviously not the case), it is impossible that non-intelligent phenomenons caused a universe of order, life, and of such immense complexity to come into existence.
On a side note, theists DO NOT use this phenomenom as their sole argument based on uncertainty. They reason and examine other possibilities, and conclude that it simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever to claim that the universe was created by non-intelligent things.
They also avoid hiding behind the shield of: "the universe is a mystery so we'll never know how it happened".
The universe is no great mystery, once you take a closer look.


II JumpiN II


It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists.
Mohandas Gandhi

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard

Last edited by lookinfor1v1; 01-17-2008 at 09:44 AM.
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#26
01-17-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookinfor1v1 View Post
You've got to be kidding.
PLEASE inform yourself before saying crap like this.
Please inform on what might I ask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingfor1v1
The story is ALEGORICAL, ITS A MYTH, written to examine profound mysteries.
Like Christians were taught in grade-school, it is full of SYMBOLS (like the APPLE), and snakes, trees, etc... which are not meant to be taken at face-value, like you seem to have done.
Ah since thats been said I can give you more credit than I have so far. It seems you don't believe in the bible either, but your attitude is still very disturbing for a christian. Ah well. At least I'm used to it from you.

Why do you find it so necessary to mock before response? You weren't spanked enough, in my opinion.
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#27
01-17-2008
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to the subject of this thread, I find it more logical to be made in a universe that was also made by a superior being than to be a matter of luck as the big bang THEORY states. i find it hard to believe that a random explosion in a universe, that apperently to some people came from nothing, some how created a human being with fully functional nerves, veins, arteries, hair, organs, emotions, sight, senses, hunger, thought, etc... ALONG with millions of fully functioning different animals, bugs, trees, and elements. i would like to see a re-enactment of this so called big bang theory. if someone would like to try this out and make it work... i would dedicate my life to that person. heres all you have to do, and ill make it easy on you, ill give you any random junk yard AND some explosives. please go plant some explosives (the big bang) in any junkyard (representing a somehow pre-exsisting galaxy) and blow it up. i would like to find a fully functioning 2007 ford f150 ( representing just one human) made from this junkyard explosion. now to make it more realisting, i would like to see a new car lot made from this explosion. and i gave that example to someone and they replied "well if you do that infinity times its may happen". yea well the problem lies herein, the junkyard, the dynamite, and the 'you', dont exsist. now explain...
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#28
01-17-2008
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I created the Universe.

/Thread.
"I asked you for a refreshing drink, I wasn't expecting a f..king rainforest.."

lookinfor1v1
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#29
01-17-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Im BigTigga H0 View Post
Please inform on what might I ask?



Ah since thats been said I can give you more credit than I have so far. It seems you don't believe in the bible either, but your attitude is still very disturbing for a christian. Ah well. At least I'm used to it from you.

Why do you find it so necessary to mock before response? You weren't spanked enough, in my opinion.
I misread your response.
Back on topic.
How do I NOT beleive I the Bible?
That's a stupid lie.
Authors write myths not for people to take them at face-value, but to get the message which they are conveying.


II JumpiN II


It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists.
Mohandas Gandhi

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard
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#30
01-17-2008
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matter cannot be created and cannot be destroyed but it had to come from somewhere right? so if it is the big bang that created the universe what created the energy and mater that caused the explosion? you could make theories that stretch on forever. its nearly impossible to comprehend how we got here and how matter came to exist and what caused the explosion. its impossible to find the evidence on how everything came to exist
 

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