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MarkedAchilles
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#601
03-25-2009
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Originally Posted by Mattey View Post
Yea obviously.

The origin of species starts with life existing, there is no explanation of where life came from. Therefore there is no explantion of the origin of speciecs.
Species come from existing life.

You are not thinking critically. Associative properties do not apply here. The book, if you read it, starts with life existing.

It doesn't say, poof life came to exist, this is how, and then speciation events occured.

It starts where he made his observations, which is a point in time where life exists. Then he talks about speciation and his hypothesis on the mechanisms by which is occurs. That is the subject of the book. The mechanism by which speciation occurs which was a giant leap forward and of which he did not get everything right.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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TooMuchButtHair
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#602
03-25-2009
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Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles View Post
I am fine with it. It is the way everything is done now. Everything is genetically engineered, why not humans.

All of your food, even what you call "organic" is genetically engineered, grown with genetically engineered pesticides and chemicals, you cannot get away from it.

There are social implications, the movie Gattaca comes to mind, but other than that I am totally cool with it. I genetically engineer stuff on a daily basis. Doing it right now actually . . .
The organic craze has me REALLY worried...perhaps I'll start a thread about it, approaching it from the perspective of a SiP (Scientist in progress). I'm stead fast against organic/all natural foods as we now know them, from the perspective of a med student. You, as a plant biologist (and an actual expert in the field of plant medicine!), might have something else to say. What's your take on pesticides? Is there room to go head to head, or do we generally agree?
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

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Originally Posted by Prowl View Post
. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
MarkedAchilles
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#603
03-25-2009
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Originally Posted by TooMuchButtHair View Post
The organic craze has me REALLY worried...perhaps I'll start a thread about it, approaching it from the perspective of a SiP (Scientist in progress). I'm stead fast against organic/all natural foods as we now know them, from the perspective of a med student. You, as a plant biologist (and an actual expert in the field of plant medicine!), might have something else to say. What's your take on pesticides? Is there room to go head to head, or do we generally agree?
Depends on your views. Fire them out and I will tell you if they are possible. I spend a lot of time dealing with breeders and growers of all sorts.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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#604
03-25-2009
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Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles View Post
Depends on your views. Fire them out and I will tell you if they are possible. I spend a lot of time dealing with breeders and growers of all sorts.
Then sir, I will make a thread about!
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

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. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
Mattey
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#605
03-26-2009
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Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles View Post
Species come from existing life.

You are not thinking critically. Associative properties do not apply here. The book, if you read it, starts with life existing.

It doesn't say, poof life came to exist, this is how, and then speciation events occured.

It starts where he made his observations, which is a point in time where life exists. Then he talks about speciation and his hypothesis on the mechanisms by which is occurs. That is the subject of the book. The mechanism by which speciation occurs which was a giant leap forward and of which he did not get everything right.
Associative properties do apply here, theres nothing complex about it. You dont have life you dont have species. The title was misleading to me, I thought he was going to explain where the first single celled organism came from, then move on. And all through public school they suggested to me that we knew how life came about on earth, so I was pissed to find out we didnt when I started reaserching it. And kind of pleased, I like these problems that have yet to be figured out, gives me something to do.
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#606
03-26-2009
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Originally Posted by Mattey View Post
Associative properties do apply here, theres nothing complex about it. You dont have life you dont have species. The title was misleading to me, I thought he was going to explain where the first single celled organism came from, then move on. And all through public school they suggested to me that we knew how life came about on earth, so I was pissed to find out we didnt when I started reaserching it. And kind of pleased, I like these problems that have yet to be figured out, gives me something to do.
So you're butthurt because of a misconception that arose because you're illiterate?


Baw more.
Spoiler!

Last edited by davobrosia; 03-26-2009 at 07:05 AM.
MarkedAchilles
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#607
03-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattey View Post
Associative properties do apply here, theres nothing complex about it. You dont have life you dont have species. The title was misleading to me, I thought he was going to explain where the first single celled organism came from, then move on. And all through public school they suggested to me that we knew how life came about on earth, so I was pissed to find out we didnt when I started reaserching it. And kind of pleased, I like these problems that have yet to be figured out, gives me something to do.
Show me how much you researched:

How do you speciate?
How is a species defined?
Give an example of speciation.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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TooMuchButtHair
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#608
03-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattey View Post
Associative properties do apply here, theres nothing complex about it. You dont have life you dont have species. The title was misleading to me, I thought he was going to explain where the first single celled organism came from, then move on. And all through public school they suggested to me that we knew how life came about on earth, so I was pissed to find out we didnt when I started reaserching it. And kind of pleased, I like these problems that have yet to be figured out, gives me something to do.
The first single celled organism arose from what we know as abiogenesis. It doesn't have much to do with evolution, though it's thought that a selection process did select the first self replicating RNA polymers (not life, just RNA, and enzyme, and some proteins, maybe not even proteins :P), where one polymer would be better able to withstand the environment than another. By that, I mean it's structure would keep it from being hydrolyzed.
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowl View Post
. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
Delay
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#609
03-26-2009
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Originally Posted by Mattey View Post
I dont think it was god but I could be wrong, if you study evolution I dont know how you could believe in god


Quote:
Originally Posted by tom31deecc FTW View Post
Does anybody know what Darwin's belief on the origin of life was? I imagine it was God, but I could be wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...ws_on_religion
The UNDERDOGG
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#610
05-20-2009
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Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles View Post
Interesting.

Mammals would of evolved into the dominant species still. Their reproductive capabilities and tolerance ranges for environmental stresses are superior.

The dinosaurs were not really killed off like many think, it was a staged exodus over millions of years so mammals evolved in their presence and in this thought I say they still would of evolved. They are still here in birds and a few other species out of the Avia.

But if some stroke of luck or environmental stability was established that allowed them to survive to the point in time where humans were coming around, I don't know. I would say that most likely we wouldn't of evolved to what we are. I would not bet on it.

I would however bet that some dinosaur would of evolved to a more cerebral capacity like us as it is a niche that is open. That would be cool. Smarter dinos. Evolving to our level of brain activity is not out of the possibility at all. It has probably happened too, remember there are billions of years. Lots can happen in billions of years. We have only been around for thousands.

The possibility because of the millions of years that they have a head of us just leaves too much open to changing that would eliminate us from the picture. So I say mammals . . . yes, us . . . no.
What if....

Dinosaurs built the pyramids?

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