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ekattan
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#31
02-08-2006
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Dude you haven't answered my question. You are in genetics and you know how complex proteins and DNA is right, so answer my question.

Do you actually think it's possible man's so complex genetic material actually derived from a singled celled organism?

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#32
02-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekattan
Dude you haven't answered my question. You are in genetics and you know how complex proteins and DNA is right, so answer my question.

Do you actually think it's possible man's so complex genetic material actually derived from a singled celled organism?

Yes. I do. I can go into detail as well.

DNA - RNA - mRNA - Proteins - Folding - Use.

This is the basic Dogma of Genetics.

Each one of these things can affect any of the others in this linkage and vice-versa. DNA can affect mRNA that is formed and Proteins can keep DNA from being used. They are made in this order but the products can change by enhancing, activating, deactivating, slowing speeding etc the rest of the items in that chain. Now keep in mind I am leaving a few links out of this chain for simplicities sake.

Now imagine that the DNA part is millions of items long. This gives you millions of RNA combos. Wich gives you millions of mRNA combos. Now at this point, imagine that you can shuffle that deck of DNA to get different things. You don't have to retain yourself to the order of the DNA. Now imagine that this DNA changes randomly and repeats and elongates itself randomly. The changes are infinate. And those millions of combos keep increasing exponentially till you get to the product.

So there are almost infinite possiblities, but they are all regulated to what works well in an environment. Changes still occur but if they don't work, they don't get passed on. Infinate possibilities + Random change = something that will work better than its predessesors. Now add into that about 4.5 billion years of time. With billions of random changes happening every second. Not minute or hour. Some will have an effect, some don't, some make stuff better, some worse, some equally as good of a product.
This is what leads to genetic diversity.

Gentic diversity leads to improvements, dissadvantages, and different stuff. Advantages are "selected" for because they are more successfull than others. So you get more and more advantages till you get us. But keep in mind that we are only as evolved as everything else around us. A tree is amazingly complicated. A salamander has far more DNA than us but when you look at it you think simple organism. We just have different advantages that have developed to allow us to live in different niches on earth, at this time, in this environment. It is the environment at this time that selects for the advantages that are good now. Walking upright may not be in our best interest in a million years. So we will either go extinct due to something or somebody with those odd deformities you see on t.v. like the guy from Africa that walks on all fours because of a skeletal "defect" will have a great advantage over us.

Ok that is enough for now.

PS:

Even single celled organisms have evolved, they have been selected for speed and simpicity. No introns, 20 minute reproductive cycle. They are kicking our asses in efficiency but we can adapt (not evolve) much better to changes to environmental change. Bacteria cannot do that as well.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
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#33
02-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
Now imagine that the DNA part is millions of items long. This gives you millions of RNA combos. Wich gives you millions of mRNA combos. Now at this point, imagine that you can shuffle that deck of DNA to get different things. You don't have to retain yourself to the order of the DNA. Now imagine that this DNA changes randomly and repeats and elongates itself randomly. The changes are infinate. And those millions of combos keep increasing exponentially till you get to the product.
Exactly my point. Can't evolution be just the probability genetic reorganization but not the evolution of traits and species do to adaptation and survival?

But the fact that we all arose from single cell organism is just higly unlikely. The validity of christianity through the existance of Jesus is more valid than this. People actually saw Jesus, and actually witnessed his miracles. If they were a hoax, well who knows. But nobody has ever seen chimp turn into a homosapien have they?


Last edited by ekattan; 02-08-2006 at 02:43 PM.
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#34
02-08-2006
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I read an article in a magazine in school today... It said that you can now go to the doctor's office and get your DNA traced to find your blood relatives, do you think this will help us in finding out 'where we came from', 'why we are here' and all of the old philosophical questions?

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#35
02-08-2006
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Nor will one ever witness a chimp turning into a human... That'd be unethical in millions of ways, we'd end up killing it, and surgery to replace the entire body would be pointless....
C'mon, man... You seem to be shouting with ear plugs on. We do not come straight from Apes. Tell me... Have you ever witnessed a GameBoy DS turn into a PSP?
If I were to say that evolution exists today, would you have a problem with it? That is, disregarding anything to do with early life, and only collecting data from about the last 500 years. We know of the genetic mutations that drive evolution, and have decoded atleast some of it. A very small change can change a lot. Or a little. Or nothing.
Now, to attack it at a religious angle. Surely G_d knows what we're capable of doing to the environment, and that it changes naturally on its own. Should life end just because it gets little colder, or the atmosphere slowly changes? Evolution makes sense. It's a system by which life can be changed.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

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#36
02-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NthEric
I read an article in a magazine in school today... It said that you can now go to the doctor's office and get your DNA traced to find your blood relatives, do you think this will help us in finding out 'where we came from', 'why we are here' and all of the old philosophical questions?
Yes we already did that. Right now we have all been traced to a woman from Africa that was a live 200000 years ago.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
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#37
02-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekattan
Exactly my point. Can't evolution be just the probability genetic reorganization but not the evolution of traits and species do to adaptation and survival?

But the fact that we all arose from single cell organism is just higly unlikely. The validity of christianity through the existance of Jesus is more valid than this. People actually saw Jesus, and actually witnessed his miracles. If they were a hoax, well who knows. But nobody has ever seen chimp turn into a homosapien have they?
Genetics is the mechanism by which natural selection works upon. These changes happen randomly. Still do. We can witness natural selection happening today. We can actually SEE this happening. Natural selection only says that those traits that are better in an environment at that time will be more successfull and this is the basis of evolution.

I have seen Natural selection occur. Witnessed it. This has NOTHING to do with Jesus. You can still believe in Jesus and accept natural selection. The have NOTHING to do with each other. Have you ever seen Jesus? What does it matter if someone else has. It doesn't have anything to do with this. NONE.

Also you keep saying this chimp into man thing. Are you actually reading what I am typing? If you don't understand, I can type it differently. Or ask questions. But this chimp into man thing must stop.

You have got the genetics thing right I think, but you are wording it wrong or not understanding. It is the language of life. It is the random changes in this language that makes different sentences. Some sound better and are repeated but some are never said again. -- good analagy? Don't know what you don't understand yet.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621

Last edited by MarkedAchilles; 02-08-2006 at 02:50 PM.
ekattan
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#38
02-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
Genetics is the mechanism by which natural selection works upon. These changes happen randomly. Still do. We can witness natural selection happening today. We can actually SEE this happening. Natural selection only says that those traits that are better in an environment at that time will be more successfull and this is the basis of evolution.
So if these changes are random how can you say they work with natural selection? Nature would have nothing to do with it if it were random?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
I have seen Natural selection occur. Witnessed it. This has NOTHING to do with Jesus.
What you have seen is something random occur, you just take it in faith of evolution that it was because of natural selection. Same faith that is required to believe in Jesus don't ya think?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
Also you keep saying this chimp into man thing. Are you actually reading what I am typing? If you don't understand, I can type it differently. Or ask questions. But this chimp into man thing must stop.
So you are saying you are a Christian Darwinist? Cause like you said, it's like a bush right? Well whats the root? What did we all derive from? What branch did we sprout from? That is why I mention an ape or a single celled organism.

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#39
02-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
Don't make me kick you in the nuts.
You would fight like a women. I would hamstring you if you tried it. Survival of the fittest. Bitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Where it Begins
I can't wait till they start hiding explosives rectally, that way I can get a finger in my ass everytime I go to the airport.
Best. Quote. Ever.
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#40
02-08-2006
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You are not understanding.

Natural Selection = the selection of characteristics that are better fit for an environment.

Thus those random changes that happen independently of the environment, are sorted out. The good and ok ones are kept and the rest are not. Those do not survive, are killed, or don't reproduce.

Do you understand this part? Take some time, adress this first then the rest.


There is no faith involved. The evidence you can observe in the environment shows natural selection in every aspect. Biology does not make sense unless seen through the eyes of natural selection - good quote, forget who said it.

And once again with the root, evolution deals with life. Not the origins of life. Stop thinking of the origin of life. Leave that out. This deals with the evidence of life. Not how it got started. Is it possible for you to stop typing about the origin. We can start a whole nother thread about it if you want.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
 

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