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MsTkEyes
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#11
08-01-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike View Post
@mstk,

who was harmed? be specific.

oh yeah, that's right, no one


fyi, this country hasn't given one single fuck about the geneva convention in 10-15 years, maybe even longer than that



i'm embarrassed to call myself an american at this point
That was more in reference to snowden's actions.... but from my understanding what Manning did was fuel the hate that could have increased retaliation/violence and made deployed soldiers even bigger targets. There's a reason why these things aren't leaked and it's not always some conspiracy of a cover up but because it's of no use to our public or raises a flag of security.

What exactly was he or the country supposed to gain from the leaks? What does it prevent or solve? He's not an expert and he crossed a line that he shouldn't have.

ETA: in response to your article, it's probably pretty hard to specifically link and prove his leaks to increased violence but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did. It's just not something they can outright prove in court.
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Last edited by MsTkEyes; 08-01-2013 at 02:15 PM.
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#12
08-01-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTkEyes View Post
Moral schmorals.... report to the Geneva Convention instead of uploading 700,000+ documents on a popular site where it could easily end up in the wrong hands as it did.
He reported to his officers who did nothing about it, which was appropriate protocol, he wouldn't just report the documents to the convention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTkEyes View Post
I'm not a crazy conservative but this guy and the likes of Snowden deserved to be charged with treason, etc. They have access to highly sensitive and confidential information and people want to cry over the information more so than the fact of how easy it was for them to turn over the information without fear of what hands it would end up to be used against this country. It's deplorable and despicable IMO.
Regardless of whether or not some bad dudes, party X and Al Qaeda) found the information useful, he leaked the information to Wikileaks. That is not the same thing as aiding and abetting, and is ridiculous that the two are thought of as one in the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTkEyes View Post
FYI, not arguing that prison conditions were right or ethical just annoyed with these cases in general when people get upset and show no concern how it puts safety and lives at stake. Also, before being ripped to shreds I'm also not arguing that what was in those documents was right or ethical!
Didn't put anyone's lives at stake, though the case could be made that it fueled the rebellions of the Arab Spring, by letting those guys know what shit lords their respective governments were being.

And like I said in my earlier post, I would never go as far as proclaiming this guy innocent. There are a lot of military technicalities that are very different from the standard American legal system. And yeah he did sign a contract when he joined, though there is also a moral and legal obligation to report war crimes by the Geneva convention. There are 700k documents, you don't really know what was in a lot of them, and why it was necessary to leak more than the war crimes. Had he leaked solely the war crimes would he still be fucked though? More than likely...

Also Obama's rules of engagement, make it MUCH more dangerous for soldiers than Manning could ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M00SEONTHEL00SE View Post
holy shit lahey, i never put it together

ive been watching trailer park boys for the last month and your avatar is jim lahey and your name is the big lahey. wow
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Sometimes I wish I was white so I can embrace the neo-nazi culture. This movie was sick and these niggas put in work.


Last edited by Grif55; 08-01-2013 at 02:22 PM.
MsTkEyes
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#13
08-01-2013
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My whole view is just that he leaked information to WikiLeaks without thinking that it may put his fellow soldiers and citizens of this country at risk.

and isn't his rules of engagement more in response to people crying about what they previously did, "shoot first and ask questions later". I think it's a bunch of crap to be honest. I remember when my brother was leaving and telling me the new rules the soldiers would have in Iraq as their police were taking over and not being able to handle their guns off base, etc. That was actually when Bush was still in though.
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#14
08-01-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTkEyes View Post
That was more in reference to snowden's actions.... but from my understanding what Manning did was fuel the hate that could have increased retaliation/violence and made deployed soldiers even bigger targets.
think big picture, what the united states is involved in is worthy of getting very upset about


there is nothing pretty about war, it should end


Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTkEyes View Post
There's a reason why these things aren't leaked and it's not always some conspiracy of a cover up but because it's of no use to our public or raises a flag of security.
shame on you


terrible attitude, honestly it scares me, a lot of people i've encountered feel like that

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTkEyes View Post
What exactly was he or the country supposed to gain from the leaks? What does it prevent or solve? He's not an expert and he crossed a line that he shouldn't have.

ETA: in response to your article, it's probably pretty hard to specifically link and prove his leaks to increased violence but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did. It's just not something they can outright prove in court.

sigh



you know the government can and does convert all of your phone calls into text and then analyzes it

are you okay with that?

what about the 4th amendment? she's hurting right now
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Last edited by mike; 08-01-2013 at 02:44 PM.
MsTkEyes
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#15
08-01-2013
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Shame on me? It hurts to be too skeptical and running around on a paranoia train all the time. I admit that our government has its faults and there probably are cover ups that have taken place but I don't believe that everything that we try to keep confidential is because of inside job type work. I'm not a nutjob and can't jump on that train. I full heartedly believe that we do not need to know everything hence why we elect and hire officials-- it is too time consuming and out of joe schmoe's interest and intellect.

They convert all of my phone calls or people that they're watching that have raised red flags within our government? I'm not a paranoid person and couldn't see how the government is able to spy on all 200+million documented citizens that we have 24/7.... That sounds like the paranoid people over Snowden's leak.
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#16
08-01-2013
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it happens, it's a reality, deal with it

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/...pying.lawsuit/

NSA warrantless surveillance (200107)
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#17
08-01-2013
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Fuck me, the "snowden and his like are traitors" camp annoys me to no end. It's honestly the most ill-conceived, illogical popular(ish) opinion on political affairs I've come across in recent years. In what universe does it make sense to, with savage prejudice, label people who report criminal behavior as horrific criminals themselves? I realize that that's an oversimplification, but citizens should not be okay with their governments blatantly committing crimes, and the arguments that whistleblowers are doing more harm than good are far too weak from any realistic point of view to justify such willful ignorance. It really scares the hell out of me. So backwards.
MsTkEyes
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#18
08-01-2013
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It's a popular opinion...? because all I see is people hailing him (and people like him) a hero.

and to be fair, I'm not okay with the crimes that are exposed. I just don't believe in the routes that they took to expose it and the risk it can create. Didn't they report with Snowden's leaks that they suspected terrorists went off the grid or it screwed up a lot of undercover plans? I'll have to google this but I remember seeing some headline about it.

eta: this may have been it, http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/0...official-says/
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Last edited by MsTkEyes; 08-01-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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#19
08-01-2013
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Well Snowden's a whole other issue but this guy tried repeatedly to bring the war crimes to the attention of his superiors who were having none of it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by M00SEONTHEL00SE View Post
holy shit lahey, i never put it together

ive been watching trailer park boys for the last month and your avatar is jim lahey and your name is the big lahey. wow
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLaTaNo View Post
Sometimes I wish I was white so I can embrace the neo-nazi culture. This movie was sick and these niggas put in work.

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#20
08-01-2013
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I mean if you are a terrorist of pulling off an attack of any measurable scale, you probably aren't scheming over gmail and Facebook, and you are probably assuming the government is spying to begin with.


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