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slater ohm
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#21
11-26-2011
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Quote:
Who are you? That was my first post in this subforum, and I'm still not seeing what I said incorrectly considering you ended your post with pretty much the same view as me.
what he said
Quote:
I do however find it funny when religious groups have tension with other religious groups, that could be considered as bad as racism.
as bad as, not the same thing as or comparable to the same basic characteristics.
he just said that it would be as shitty a thing


what he responded to
Quote:
You can't really control what you believe in, just as you can't choose who you love, what gender you are or what race you are.
that's saying it has the same characteristics, while believing or not believing in something can have to do with how open you allow yourself to be and the choices you make in life..
Being white or Asian can not.


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#22
11-26-2011
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You know, if I really wanted to stretch it I could argue the same about all of the others, minus race. People change genders, people change sexualities, people change beliefs. But, at the time that they have one, it isn't something they feel like they can control..and they don't deserve to be hated on because of that, especially when it isn't bothering anyone else.

The whole point of my post was to say it isn't okay to hate people based on what they are, rather than who they are. doing so can be as hurtful as any other issues that are commonly talked about and looked down upon. if you don't agree with that, then it's cool, but picking a sentence apart isn't really that necessary.
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#23
11-26-2011
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that wasn't my point, my point was:
Quote:
nd I'm still not seeing what I said incorrectly considering you ended your post with pretty much the same view as me.
that this was false.

it was not the same view at all.


also, as to picking apart sentences: they are what contain your ideas.. it is quite important to understand them.


@
Quote:
people change beliefs. But, at the time that they have one, it isn't something they feel like they can control..and they don't deserve to be hated on because of that, especially when it isn't bothering anyone else.
I control my beliefs by making the choices I do. I accept that my understanding and views of the world come from my experience and thus placement in the system. by doing so I can influence it by making choices and creating possibility for new ideas.

You dont just 'have a belief' at a certain period in your life, it's an ever changing thing with maybe some bigger leaps here and there. This also goes for Catholics, buddhists.. anyone really. the thing is, do you open yourself up and actively reach for ideas that are quite different from what you are used to (you don't have to accept them as better/true) or do you stick within the circle you're used to and develop in there: willfullingly blocking possible betterment of yourself and the influence you may have on your suroundings.

If people support something that is considered harmful by others, people may choose to dislike them for it.
the 'I'm not harming anyone by my beliefs' concept is false when it controls who you support, who you fund, for whom you vote and who you don't do these things for or even are biased against. This is most likely to occur when your belief falls within or contains an organized religion that has invested in and seeks to affect the material world where everyone resides.

When you keep to your spiritual world, nothing can come of it. but hardly anyone does that 100%, not even monks, so take responsibility for your beliefs. I think it makes them more your own or proves that they really arent your beliefs but just something you like the sound of.
I've heard you voice your opinion on quite a few worldy events that seem to come from your way of seeing the world/belief system. which is good, stand up for it, act on it, but don't deny that it has an effect on others. I even presume you want it to; then also except others may dislike you for it.

People of a certain color shouldnt have to stand for their being of that color, people who belief something should stand for their beliefs.

I dont have spellcheck on this shitty ass pc and I g2g so sorry if some shit is wrong/fucked.
muchos lovos


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Last edited by slater ohm; 11-26-2011 at 12:08 PM.
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#24
11-26-2011
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Okay, I have a further understanding of what you mean now. I honestly hadn't even thought about how voicing and acting on beliefs affects other people. So, you are right.

I retract my statement, to an extent. I think it's important to disagree with things in order for the world to be interesting, but, even though beliefs can affect other people [as far as who becomes president, what people/companies/organizations get attention], I don't think people should be hateful towards those people. There is a way to tactfully disagree, and if you believe in something different than the person you're arguing with it should just come down to whoever has the best argument and influence wins, not whoever pulls out hate and violence to eliminate. But this happens, and I still think it's just as unacceptable as any other hate crime.

I have not slept in two days so I honestly don't know if anything I'm saying makes sense. I apologize in advance if it doesn't. I'll check back when I have slept.
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#25
11-30-2011
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I don't even know why anyone would hate someone for their beliefs. It honestly astounds me that so many people get upset that others have different beliefs than them.

I mean I rarely find (on this forum, i dont really go on other forums so i cant speak for any other place) threads started by theists in order to insult atheists beliefs, while on the other hand, a vast majority of the topics are created by atheists in order to mock and poke fun at theism, and to discuss how 'wrong' it is. I'm not quite sure how (some) atheists think that theists are un-intelligent because they have an opinion on something that nobody knows the real answer to.

And before I get neg rep'd, or trashed in following posts, I'm in no way saying all atheists are intolerant people, this post is based mainly off of observations of this particular forum category. As much as it sounds to go against the whole idea of the thread, I'm not insulting atheists and atheism, I'm actually very open-minded and I can completely understand why they believe the things they do. I do believe that anyone with such a narrow-mind that they cannot accept others feelings (yes, that goes for christians as well) are the more un-intelligent ones.

I realize this may sound very weird, I'm not quite sure why, but it does to me. I'm just not sure why some atheists believe its so wrong to think there is a diety.


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#26
11-30-2011
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It's probably due to some kind of anger, there are some atheists out there that ruin it for the rest of people. Same goes for everyone

You can always agree to disagree, just as long as it doesn't actually hurt people or take away from rights.

Indoctrination does kind of make the line blurred though.
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#27
11-30-2011
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I'm not gonna write another essay specifically on the belief in a deity and organised religion, but please read what I said about 'doesn't hurt anyone' above, in reply to CalenderCat. you can apply it to this quite easily I would assume.

Beliefs have consequences for your surroundings. You can not contain it to just your mind.

as for religion, real quick
when I see schools of people go into churches that scares me shitless, surrounding yourself with people who will confirm each others beliefs bends reasoning into agreeing with your belief system every time.
fuck I do it on youtube, I end up watching people that agree with me while there's probably the opposite to be found within seconds. And when I do see something different my first instinct is to dismiss it, because I've just seen all these people agree with me.
selective and protective reasoning is something you cant prevent but should strive to constrain.
Being part of an organized religion does the opposite, active or not. It's much more defined than being an Atheist, it comes with statutes and books, supporting each other (fighting for it even) and claims of absolute truth. Thus has a greater impact.
empowering people, making choices that influence others.. you prob do it more often than you think.


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#28
11-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slater ohm View Post
I'm not gonna write another essay specifically on the belief in a deity and organised religion, but please read what I said about 'doesn't hurt anyone' above, in reply to CalenderCat. you can apply it to this quite easily I would assume.

Beliefs have consequences for your surroundings. You can not contain it to just your mind.

as for religion, real quick
when I see schools of people go into churches that scares me shitless, surrounding yourself with people who will confirm each others beliefs bends reasoning into agreeing with your belief system every time.
fuck I do it on youtube, I end up watching people that agree with me while there's probably the opposite to be found within seconds. And when I do see something different my first instinct is to dismiss it, because I've just seen all these people agree with me.
selective and protective reasoning is something you cant prevent but should strive to constrain.
Being part of an organized religion does the opposite, active or not. It's much more defined than being an Atheist, it comes with statutes and books, supporting each other (fighting for it even) and claims of absolute truth. Thus has a greater impact.
empowering people, making choices that influence others.. you prob do it more often than you think.
I didn't write that post because I don't like atheists, I wrote it because the ones that are posting a majority of the topics are close-minded individuals. My post would have been the exact same if it were Christians posting and simply dismissing the other opinion because it wasn't there own.

And thats debatable. While I see/and agree somewhat with what your saying, I don't necessarily feel I fall into that category. I am Catholic, but I'm not the kind that can say whole-heartedly that I believe in God. I mean I think there's a possibility of a god, but I don't simply dismiss atheism because its not what I have lived around. I really do accept atheism, but it kind of angers me with the intolerance displayed on the forums.

But I do understand exactly what your saying :P I'm just not sure why people can't get over the fact that everyone thinks differently.


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#29
12-17-2011
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I definitely can see how religion could be portrayed as discrimination. Name me one religion that isn't about separating people; I'll name you three that are: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. If you want proof of this, I'll gladly provide it using only quotes from their respective holy books.

But I think the case can also be made that religious tolerance can unite people. The Christian religions have done an amazing job of binding together. Prior to the abortion movement of the 1960's, most Christian sects were more worried about other Christian sects than Atheism or even Islam. Even the term "Christian" wasn't widely used as an all-encompassing term for the Christian denominations until that period. Then what happened? Abortion came along and united them all under the banner of "Christianity". And Now we're seeing it again with the strong rise of Atheism. Christians binding with Jews and Muslims (at least in the US) and fighting against a common enemy (Atheism).

If you put a large enough enemy in front two or more faiths that threatens them all, you may be surprised to see how quickly they will come to unite peoples of all faiths and races.
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#30
12-17-2011
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Probably said.. but religion is a choice, your skin colour and sexual preference isn't (well some people choose to be attracted to the opposite sex to be 'different' but other than that).
 

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