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BostonReign
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#11
11-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muRda View Post
I don't religious people for being religious. I'm just frustrated by their general incapacity to think critically.

Also, religion is a choice, whether you're indoctrinated into your beliefs or not. Sex, race, etc. aren't.
So, in general, religious people are incapable of critical thinking? As in, if they just stopped a second and really took a long, hard, critical look at what they believe in and why they believe in it, they'd come to the realization that all along they've put their faith and hope in something that can't be proven logically, and abandon it all together?

Is that you mean by think critically? I do an immense amount of critical thinking about my faith, and about why it is exactly that I believe in what I believe in, and admittedly, much of it comes down to visceral or empirical experiences rather than logical ones, but that doesn't mean I or any other religious person has the inability to think critically.

I also think you're kind of just haphazardly making a sweeping generalization here rather than looking at it carefully, because there are plenty of nonreligious people out there who can't think critically, though I'm sure you knew that.
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#12
11-23-2011
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It's tricky. Religion is usually no more a choice than race, what with socialization and unbalanced power relations and whatnot. Get into Foucault ffs.
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#13
11-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhis View Post
it only falls into that category when one group tries to push their beliefs onto another. u can believe in anything you want so long as i can believe in what i do and we can have a civil conversation about the sorts.
That's a silly if popular way of thinking. And besides that incoherent. For example would you say we ought to push our belief that we ought not push beliefs onto people onto people? That's a hard sentence to read but let x = the belief that we ought not push beliefs onto people. Wouldn't pushing x onto people contradict x? But more importantly pretty much every major advance in civil rights, prison reform, etc. is an instance of one group of people saying "hey your beliefs are cruel and immoral, we should treat people better". Pushing beliefs onto people with varying degrees of insistence is an essential, important, and morally neutral part of humanity.
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Last edited by briansoupy; 11-23-2011 at 10:39 PM.
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#14
11-24-2011
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I'd say prison reform is slightly different than deep rooted 2,000 year old (or older) faith based belief systems.

And you hardly 'choose' to be religious.


But is it as detrimental as racism? prolly not

Last edited by Yeshwa; 11-24-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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#15
11-24-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muRda View Post
Also, religion is a choice, whether you're indoctrinated into your beliefs or not. Sex, race, etc. aren't.
Exactly.

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#16
11-24-2011
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Quote:
I'd say prison reform is slightly different than deep rooted 2,000 year old (or older) faith based belief systems.
you hardly 'choose' to be religious.


But is it as detrimental as racism? prolly not
Basically.
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#17
11-24-2011
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I think disliking religion as a whole is harmless, that's your decision. Pinpointing a particular group, however, is still a hate crime, and I see it being as detrimental as any other issue that goes on with racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. People can argue that religion is a choice but it isn't, really. You can't really control what you believe in, just as you can't choose who you love, what gender you are or what race you are.

In short: leave people the fuck alone!
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#18
11-24-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Break View Post
Respect should be given to everyone, regardless of the decisions they made in the past. But that is just my opinion.
So you would give respect to Hitler? Bernie Madoff? Casey Anthony?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archonize View Post
I get what you're saying, but if someone has firm values (whether they are religious or atheist,) those values become a part of you, so in many cases it is may not so much a choice, but as a part of who they are, just like gender and race are. But don't mind my ramblings.
I don't believe in people making values apart of them. Our values and ideas fluctuate throughout our entire lives. Religion comes from the Latin verb meaning "to bind." So, basically, you bind your thoughts about pretty much everything, seeking to justify anything that conflicts with those thoughts by rationalizing them to yourself, regardless of whether or not they're rational.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonReign View Post
So, in general, religious people are incapable of critical thinking? As in, if they just stopped a second and really took a long, hard, critical look at what they believe in and why they believe in it, they'd come to the realization that all along they've put their faith and hope in something that can't be proven logically, and abandon it all together?

Is that you mean by think critically? I do an immense amount of critical thinking about my faith, and about why it is exactly that I believe in what I believe in, and admittedly, much of it comes down to visceral or empirical experiences rather than logical ones, but that doesn't mean I or any other religious person has the inability to think critically.

I also think you're kind of just haphazardly making a sweeping generalization here rather than looking at it carefully, because there are plenty of nonreligious people out there who can't think critically, though I'm sure you knew that.
I never said nonreligious people don't think critically. I'm just saying that if you were actually really critical about your religious beliefs, you wouldn't have them. Also, the problem, too, isn't people not being able to think critically but failing to have other ideas from which they can critically analyze their own. Unless you're willing to discuss yours, I really don't feel like talking in generalities for fear of making generalizations.
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#19
11-25-2011
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Who are you? That was my first post in this subforum, and I'm still not seeing what I said incorrectly considering you ended your post with pretty much the same view as me.
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#20
11-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archonize View Post
Do you believe the hatred towards people of (or lack there-of) religion falls into the same category as racism, sexism, etc?

Just wanted to see some discussion on this topic, which recently came to mind.
Indeed. Hatred directed towards a wide group of people based on them being different from you is pretty much inexcusable. Hating an ideology would be a bit better, but people are silly, and don't seem to be able to differentiate the two. Hatred in general is something the world could do without.

Also, for fear of invoking Godwin's Law, something something WWII.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

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