Halo 2 Forum > Off-topic > Debate Forum > Religion Debate
 
 
Display Modes Thread Tools
Delay
Level 44
Delay's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 10,693
Subtract from Delay's ReputationAdd to Delay's Reputation Delay is legendary Delay is legendary Delay is legendary
#1
05-17-2011
Default Christopher Hitchens

I have so much adoration and respect for this man and his brilliance, just now finding out he has stage four lung cancer... He was diagnosed late 2010. Incredible to see him talk about it in interviews--I watched a few on youtube the other night. He practically had me in tears, so sad.

Obviously not a debate, he just belongs in this section. Maybe I'll post some of my favorite quotes from him tomorrow or late tonight.
Smuttny
The People's Champion
Smuttny's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 12,110
Subtract from Smuttny's ReputationAdd to Smuttny's Reputation Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000 Smuttny IS OVER 9000
#2
05-17-2011
Default

I've read two or three of his books. Specifically, I really enjoyed 'God is Not Great'.

He's an amazing author, and a man I really respect. This is my first time hearing about his cancer.
davobrosia
Ask Z for $50
davobrosia's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 22,593
Subtract from davobrosia's ReputationAdd to davobrosia's Reputation davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000 davobrosia IS OVER 9000
Send a message via AIM to davobrosia
#3
05-19-2011
Default

He's kind of a neocon.
Spoiler!
The Colostomizer
REP FOR THE REP GOD
The Colostomizer's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 290,211
Subtract from The Colostomizer's ReputationAdd to The Colostomizer's Reputation The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000
#4
05-19-2011
Default

Didn't he reverse his position on Iraq?
briansoupy
Level 31
briansoupy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,121
Subtract from briansoupy's ReputationAdd to briansoupy's Reputation briansoupy is a novice
Send a message via AIM to briansoupy Send a message via Skype™ to briansoupy
#5
05-20-2011
Default

Talented writer I guess. I haven't read God is Not Great but I already find myself agreeing with Eagleton when he says that Hitchens and Dawkins take an easy way out and attack a fundamentalist strawman of religion.
Oh! Sweet Nuthin'
Quote:
to say god, is to sing god
to sing to god, is to draw near to god
to the nearness that is god

Last edited by briansoupy; 05-20-2011 at 09:06 PM.
slater ohm
MovieCompMovieCompMovieCo
slater ohm's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: day care
Posts: 23,369
Subtract from slater ohm's ReputationAdd to slater ohm's Reputation slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000 slater ohm IS OVER 9000
Send a message via AIM to slater ohm
#6
05-20-2011
Default

great interview (2011)



I thought everybody knew he was ill.


THF




Halo 2 videos
Ohmage | Ohmega | Blue sky | Dual | Post Fin | Fash Late
The Colostomizer
REP FOR THE REP GOD
The Colostomizer's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 290,211
Subtract from The Colostomizer's ReputationAdd to The Colostomizer's Reputation The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000
#7
05-21-2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by briansoupy View Post
Talented writer I guess. I haven't read God is Not Great but I already find myself agreeing with Eagleton when he says that Hitchens and Dawkins take an easy way out and attack a fundamentalist strawman of religion.
What are religious moderates but fundamentalists who recognize their indefensible position and ad hoc hypothesize to cope with the cognitive dissonance?
briansoupy
Level 31
briansoupy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,121
Subtract from briansoupy's ReputationAdd to briansoupy's Reputation briansoupy is a novice
Send a message via AIM to briansoupy Send a message via Skype™ to briansoupy
#8
05-21-2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer View Post
What are religious moderates but fundamentalists who recognize their indefensible position and ad hoc hypothesize to cope with the cognitive dissonance?
A whole lot of things. Why do you hold everyone so closely to labels of organized religion? Would you also say that all conservative are Tea Partiers "who recognize their indefensible position and ad hoc hypothesize to cope with the cognitive dissonance"? Actually you probably would...
Oh! Sweet Nuthin'
Quote:
to say god, is to sing god
to sing to god, is to draw near to god
to the nearness that is god
The Colostomizer
REP FOR THE REP GOD
The Colostomizer's Avatar
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 290,211
Subtract from The Colostomizer's ReputationAdd to The Colostomizer's Reputation The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000 The Colostomizer IS OVER 9000
#9
05-21-2011
Default

I wouldn't, because that's retarded. You're making me think that you didn't understand what I was saying, considering religious moderates came after fundamentalists (talking about the ideologies, not the labels), as the Tea Party came after conservative politics (not the other way around). I suppose I'll have to elaborate a bit for you.

Religious moderates didn't exist before the Scientific Revolution and the Age of Enlightenment (arguably with precious few exceptions). Christians back then, for example, didn't have the wealth of good reasons we have now to doubt the literal truth of the Bible. Then comes along Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, et al. Suddenly, pieces of the puzzle start falling into place. The gigantic void that was human knowledge of the natural world begins to resemble a series of gaps, punctuated by reasoned insights. And as time goes on, the gaps get smaller and farther in between.

With every step of scientific progress, religion is thrown anew into disarray. Fresh evidence contradicting scripture is cropping up at an alarming rate. How to respond? This is where the cognitive dissonance comes in. You can't both accept science and believe in the literal truth of the Bible (unless you have superhuman compartmentalizing skills, or maybe schizophrenia). One approach is to flat out reject science (which is almost guaranteed to entail hypocritically taking advantage of it these days). The other is to revise your religious beliefs, twist them around until they no longer appear to be in conflict with science (metaphor this, allegory that, cherry pick some nice verses and ignore the brutal ones). That's the ad hoc hypothesizing. And thus, religious moderates are born, necessitating the contemporary fundamentalist label for contrast.

The point is that both fundamentalists and moderates are wrong for exactly the same reasons, hence the whole "easy way out, fundamentalist straw man" argument being bullshіt. The difference between those two kinds of people is that fundamentalists are usually the ones doing evil in the name of God, and moderates simply enable them (which is just as bad in some ways, and worse in others).
briansoupy
Level 31
briansoupy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,121
Subtract from briansoupy's ReputationAdd to briansoupy's Reputation briansoupy is a novice
Send a message via AIM to briansoupy Send a message via Skype™ to briansoupy
#10
05-21-2011
Default

There was no hint of chronology in your first post, I thought you were just suggesting that moderates you disagree with are just fundamentalists with more slippery and convoluted rhetoric.

I don't know maybe you're right, but "arguably with precious few exceptions"? That's hardly arguable, there were lots of Christian intellectuals around before the Renaissance (Thomas Aquinas, Anselm).

Anyways I'm pretty far out of my element here seeing as I don't really know Hitchen's argument. My impression is that he lists off atrocities and wars instigated by organized religion and comes to the conclusion then that God and theism are social ills and should be extinguished. If that's wrong, then sorry, but if it's right I think he's "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" so to speak.
Oh! Sweet Nuthin'
Quote:
to say god, is to sing god
to sing to god, is to draw near to god
to the nearness that is god
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off