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Conspiracy
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#51
04-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer View Post
Christians often say the same thing. But for every verse you can cherry pick from the Bible or the Quran to support that position, there are a dozen others contradicting it.
the Quran actually contains facts about the earth and science overall that weren't even discovered yet when it was released

there are numerous reports of scientists even switching to islam

i recommend watching this documentary from the BBC:



whether or not the religion is true, it's still extremely weird that such things would be written in that time period


Last edited by Conspiracy; 04-28-2011 at 05:24 PM.
The Colostomizer
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#52
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by StaTuS FeaR View Post
I cant believe you just typed up this essay of an answer. I didnt read it but kudos to you
That's pretty weak, man. I mean, I laffed, but for all you know, you just gave him kudos for spewing a load of absolute shіt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpoint View Post
Ive learned over time that intolerant, arrogant, cowardly people are pretty much the same, despite whatever side of the fence they play on.
Usually, sure. But you wouldn't lump people into that group who were intolerant of the Holocaust, would you? That's the thing. Beliefs should not automatically command respect. They should be respectable first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVideo View Post
I am not religious, I dont go to church or anything, but you have to admit that, of all the ancient cultures, tribes and religions, honestly Genesis is much more realistic than burning virgins on a stone altar to the "moon goddess" or believing that there is a rabbit living inside the moon.
That's not saying much, though. There are certainly plenty of verses in Genesis that are absolutely ridiculous. And anyway, if they didn't really mean to say that the Moon emitted light, they were at least thinking it. Nobody back then knew that it was just reflecting the Sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy View Post
the Quran actually contains facts about the earth and science overall that weren't even discovered yet when it was released
That's just more cherry picking and confirmation bias. If Islam is right, and Allah exists, then why would all of those supposed scientific facts be so vague? It should've been trivially easy to include in the Quran, "Light travels at 300,000 kilometers per second." That would've been interesting. As it is, people who already believe in Islam, or just want to, go looking for verses to support their position. They find something vague enough, twist it around, and interpret it to suit their preconceived notions.
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#53
04-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post

We haven't gathered any evidence that he doesn't exist, so why not assume that there does exist a higher power?


Is it even possible to have proof that something (anything) doesn't exist besides saying, "Hey look, it's not here, MUST NOT EXIST! I mean, I've looked everywhere."
She only comes to me in my dreams
So sleep becomes routine
It's not healthy, it's what makes you right
It's not healthy, it's what makes you...

She only comes to me in my dreams

So sleep becomes addicting
It's not healthy, it's what makes you right
It's not healthy, it's what makes you...



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#54
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
And one could just as easily say that certain theories in science are unfounded and fill a gap that we currently have regarding the origin of the universe that was divinely inspired.
Anyone can propose an obviously unfounded hypothesis. But there are specific, much more stringent demands placed on scientific theories. If a theory is unfounded, it is tossed by the wayside.

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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
It works both ways when you have an unknown quantity. Any explanation has to be considered viable until or at least "alive", until rendered functionally impossible.

That includes the possibility of creationism.
Creationism actually can be treated as a hypothesis, in a sense. If you do so, you quickly find a preponderance of evidence falsifying it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
It also includes the possibility of spontaneous life being created by mere chance, but the sophistication of life and the nature of the circumstances are just so incredibly unlikely.
It may seem unlikely at first blush, but much less so when you consider the size and age of the universe. If you're throwing around a trillion-sided die, what are the chances of you rolling a one on your first try? What if you get ten tries? What if you had a million friends each rolling their own die once a second for thirteen billion years? That's a fairer way to consider the origin of life and the complexity of evolution.

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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Having faith in those scientific methods to determine the eventual missing evidence is a faith of some variety.
A scientific theory is a model, an abstraction, a construct used to make predictions about natural phenomena. It does not, and cannot, describe objective reality. Nonetheless, we have science to thank for the polio vaccine, airliners, microwave ovens, tsunami early warning systems, the Internet, etc. It may not describe what is actually going on, but it does work. For this same reason, it is a contradiction in terms to characterize science as faith-based. You do not need faith in a theory if there is no truth claim. You simply keep it for as long as it is useful and drop it once you find a better one.
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#55
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by The Colostomizer View Post
That's just more cherry picking and confirmation bias. If Islam is right, and Allah exists, then why would all of those supposed scientific facts be so vague? It should've been trivially easy to include in the Quran, "Light travels at 300,000 kilometers per second." That would've been interesting. As it is, people who already believe in Islam, or just want to, go looking for verses to support their position. They find something vague enough, twist it around, and interpret it to suit their preconceived notions.
i know what you mean, and that's exactly what i always wonder.

we'll never know the truth...

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#56
04-28-2011
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Never say never.
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#57
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by FraGTaLiTy View Post
Logic isn't a form of philosophy... nor is it self-defeating.
False. Logic is the most quintessential form of faith, really. Atheism is the most hypocritical of all religions.


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#58
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by WicKeD ASSaSiN View Post
Atheism is the most hypocritical of all religions.
No, no, no.
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#59
04-28-2011
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Gimme your definition of a religion. I want to try to use it against you.


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#60
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I am really in the process of attempting to find that out myself to be honest. I don't want to endorse one over another and the truth may be that I never find an organized religion that accurately reflects my fundamental belief but I am fine with that possibility too. I just believe that all true faith is worthy of respect and that those on both sides of the discussion that attempt to discredit the other are overstepping their bounds as spirituality is such a personal and privately vested viewpoint. And for the record, I disagree with religious matters being the basis for political opinions as well and think that our whole system revolving around Judeo-Christian values is as criminal as your average atheist. I just really dislike when people dismiss things directly out of hand that they have never fully invested themselves into discovering. I have briefly studied virtually every mainstream religion out there in a very simplistic manner and have come to a few conclusions of my own, but sharing them here would be denying another the benefit of discovery and their own fresh interpretation of the presented material.

I just want to advocate not falling victim to the sheep mentality that pervades among the educated community that commands you be atheistic or agnostic in order to move forward in academia. I think quite a number of folks that post here view that as a requisite value set prior to attempting to achieve enlightenment and it's really just as much a borrowed sentiment as any for those that probably haven't ever evaluated theology on its own merits devoid of any preexisting biases or conclusions drawn seeking evidence to prove them as opposed to entering the venture as an empty slate. It is no coincidence that virtually every pseudo-intellectual despises those that hold spiritual values as if they have achieved enlightenment on the issue via association with those whose opinions they value.

My apologies for the long winded answer.
No problems man, I'll never complain about clarity.

I guess if I had to side with an idea it'd be Taoism.
 

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