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muRda
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#41
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Science, Mathematics, Physics, and even Philosophy all have their place in helping us decipher the finer details of creationism if that is your value set.
Imagine you saying 1000 years ago that those four disciplines could help us decipher the finer details of a geocentric universe. Science is an evolving process to better understand our world; religion has been set and just seeks justification.

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The final hurdle that cannot be overcome with any degree of accuracy is the initial flicker of light that ignited the entire process. I am perfectly comfortable in the cohabitation of my scientific and religious knowledge and have never encountered anything other than theory that directly constituted an infringement upon my faith.
...yet. Science has been tearing up the foundations of religious writings and beliefs and causing theists to conjure justifications for both. I get where you're coming from, I was teetering on the same position before I slowly began my transition to atheism.

But, let me know if you actually ever try what I proposed. Trace your religious beliefs back to the time they were first conjured up.
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#42
04-28-2011
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Everybody is spiritual in certain sense.

Having learned about all religions or having had a non religious upbringing and never looked through any basic religious principles, neither one is 'better' than the other. Both can come to beautiful individual thoughts, influenced by whatever.
As pointed out most atheist tend to read up on the religions because of their discussions with theists, but most of this nitpicking is not necessary. I hope in the future just to look into the main principles of most religions will make it clear enough to most that a total truth is probably not there (= not every word should be revered/studied by everyone per se). Now as for morals, great stories, history, understanding of human group behavior etc. etc. yesyesyes, read the f.cking texts and find many a treasure. But they're not the most important texts on those subjects either, I would say more of a vital link to understand the speed/direction of progress in some fields of study.
I sometimes see people on TV being interviewed about if they know what Eastern is all about, and of course I know this.. but is it really that big of a deal when people don't? I don't care.. and I'm pretty sure they know the Christian texts say Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. Which in the current days is still useful knowledge. But that the 40 day fasting period is called Lent and that the dutch word for spring season is 'Lente' because of this is irrelevant and almost no one knows this anymore.

I see participation and believe in organised religion as individually and thus spiritually stifling.

My concept of spirituality is very much based on being able to utmost appreciate any moment of wonder/elation and an ever present feeling of self-appreciation in the sense of my greater context.
I've been searching for a concept that is more socially involved as I've only been able to let a select few people into my personal space and I think it's worth a try to see what makes me and my surroundings happiest.
But this is solely for myself, I do not think other's should have the same spiritual stimuli.. I've always been someone to lock myself in my room for hours at one time and being the center of attention the next. this concept comes close to who I am as a person, which is what makes for the most intense experiences.
no idea if I worded that to make any sense.

Religion angers me sometimes, I have a hard time letting that go. I can definitely see what Vagrant means by the 16-22 y/o atheist just hammering away at others, I've tried to be more tolerant in this area.
It is when amazing people forget their self worth because of their believe in a concept they have been indoctrinated in since birth that I get upset.
Or when decisions and information is kept from people who would otherwise be able to discover and learn. I think we all want to feel like we have a strand of truth and the freedom to pursue it.

long days work rant, feels good.


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Last edited by slater ohm; 04-28-2011 at 02:26 PM.
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#43
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by Plato View Post
You calling me slow for belief in a higher being is ignorant on your part. You are talking as if you are 100% sure of what your faith lies upon is factual. Don't come at me with insults when it makes you look like a fool.
no, i called you slow because you think creationism is "logical"

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Originally Posted by plato
How can nothing create everything?
you're slow kid
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#44
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by Plato View Post
We haven't gathered any evidence that he doesn't exist, so why not assume that there does exist a higher power?
Because that's not how logic works. You're committing an argument from ignorance fallacy.
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#45
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I believe in God and also believe in Science. The two are not opposing ideologies at this point unless your interpretation of biblical texts demands it. Considering that the Bible has been through hundreds of translations and revisions and originated in Hebrew, and there are thoughts in Hebrew that cannot be articulated as simply as they are attempted, taking the Bible and attempting to pick it apart word for word is a fool's errand. Sadly enough, many uneducated people refuse to recognize the ability for such simple topics as evolution to be viable explanations for the world we live in and as a result create a poor reputation for people with the ability to use their brains.

In other words, getting angry at people in Texas for not understanding the nature of the world they live in and falling back on contrived explanations as they interpret from the bible is picking low hanging fruit to feel intellectually superior.

As are knee jerk reactions like, "people who believe in god are stupid", but I digress. Existing on a polar opposite extreme from an idiot makes you an idiot too in most cases.
And that is why it will forever remain scrutinized.

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#46
04-28-2011
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heh logic is such a self-defeating philosophy


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#47
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by WicKeD ASSaSiN View Post
heh logic is such a self-defeating philosophy
Logic isn't a form of philosophy... nor is it self-defeating.
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#48
04-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I believe in God and also believe in Science. The two are not opposing ideologies at this point unless your interpretation of biblical texts demands it.
But the Bible says things that are directly contradicted by science. If you want to keep your belief in both, you have to alter your interpretation of one or the other (or deal with the cognitive dissonance in some other way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
You calling me slow for belief in a higher being is ignorant on your part. You are talking as if you are 100% sure of what your faith lies upon is factual. Don't come at me with insults when it makes you look like a fool.
Unfortunately for you, he's absolutely right. Take what you said below, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
We haven't gathered any evidence that he doesn't exist, so why not assume that there does exist a higher power?
Are you aware of any evidence that Islam is wrong? What about Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, Heaven's Gate, Wicca, Greek mythology, or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? No? Then why not assume that they're all right? On the other hand, there's absolutely no evidence that any religion is right. Why not assume they're all wrong?

Now do you understand why it's easy to write you off as an idiot?

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Originally Posted by Plato View Post
Give me some examples, I find this interesting.
Heliocentrism, evolution, and the Big Bang, for starters.

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 04-28-2011 at 04:59 PM.
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#49
04-28-2011
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Originally Posted by The Colostomizer View Post
But the Bible says things that are directly contradicted by science. If you want to keep your belief in both, you have to alter your interpretation of one or the other (or deal with the cognitive dissonance in some other way).

Unfortunately for you, he's absolutely right. Take what you said below, for example.

Are you aware of any evidence that Islam is wrong? What about Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, Heaven's Gate, Wicca, Greek mythology, or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? No? Then why not assume that they're all right? On the other hand, there's absolutely no evidence that any religion is right. Why not assume they're all wrong?

Now do you understand why it's easy to write you off as an idiot?

Heliocentrism, evolution, and the Big Bang, for starters.
not trying to start a debate, but islam doesn't contradict with science at all, and it actually encourages it

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#50
04-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy View Post
not trying to start a debate, but islam doesn't contradict with science at all, and it actually encourages it
Christians often say the same thing. But for every verse you can cherry pick from the Bible or the Quran to support that position, there are a dozen others contradicting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
Theists belief in God is highly dependable on the sheer faith they put in that deity.
Belief in God is entirely dependent on faith, and in fact flies in the face of reason and evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
Atheists don't believe in God, but does that mean they don't believe in something else? Of course not, you have to believe that we came from somewhere or that we came from nothing. Solid, physical proof would be fantastic to have, but we ALL put our faith in some sort of event that brought us here.
Not even slightly true. There is an alternative to claiming knowledge (or believing something, if you'd rather put it that way). Just say, "I don't know." It may take more courage than you possess, but other people do it all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
I find myself devoted to creationism because it seems more logical that every complexity of our universe came from an intelligent being. How can nothing create everything?
Haven't you ever wondered how God came to be? Why does it seem so improbable to you that the universe could simply pop into existence by itself or have always existed, but you ascribe no such problem to God? If you had any idea what you were talking about, you'd know that everything about our universe suggests it wasn't designed by some higher power.

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 04-29-2011 at 03:50 AM.
 

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