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Jewtage
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#31
03-28-2011
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I choose what I want. As long as I feel like I made that choice, someone can tell me a diety made it for me all they want and I wouldn't care.
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#32
03-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
I just don't subscribe to determinism and the predestination belief. If you do believe in that, then why go to work? Why eat healthy, like that's going to extend your lifespan with your future already decided for you? Why look both ways before you cross the street? Why drive the speed limit? Why follow the rules, when they don't equate to sh.t in the grand scheme of things?
How are we to know what is predestined for us? Why essentially throw in the towel? Even if predestination is true, doesn't mean I'm just going to roll over, but that's just me.
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#33
03-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post
How are we to know what is predestined for us? Why essentially throw in the towel? Even if predestination is true, doesn't mean I'm just going to roll over, but that's just me.
You would obviously have just been predestined to throw in the towel, or not.
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#34
03-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muRda View Post
You would obviously have just been predestined to throw in the towel, or not.
Well yeah, what I was getting at is why do people feel the need to give up on life even if predestination is true?

Because as far as I can tell, I still have choices to make, I could care less if a deity already knows those choices or not.
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#35
03-30-2011
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You are predestined to think you can make choices =O
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#36
03-30-2011
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You don't demonstrate much understanding of the way the argument actually works.
Spoiler!
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#37
03-30-2011
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I've never taken a logic/philosophy class but my thoughts are basically this. Within our realm of understanding and within logic, an omniscient god and free will are a contradiction. Also, the ability for us to make one choice whether there is an omniscient god or not basically demonstrates the impossibility of knowing which one is acting (free will or determinism). So we make one choice, there is no way of knowing, within our realm of understanding, whether that choice was governed by free will for determined before we already made it. It seems to me, like many other questions in the realm of religion, to be a matter of faith. There is no logic behind it, if anything, there arises a contradiction, but these beliefs in god/determinism as well as free will are founded in faith.

It's really funny if you think about the choice of believing in determinism or free will as governed by the other :P. Do those people believe in free will because it was determined or was it a choice? /trollface

Also, I'm sure all you philosophy majors can lololololol all over my amateurishness :3
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#38
03-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
How can I understand what I'm talking about?
Now you're good.
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#39
03-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorn_248 View Post
I've never taken a logic/philosophy class but my thoughts are basically this. Within our realm of understanding and within logic, an omniscient god and free will are a contradiction. Also, the ability for us to make one choice whether there is an omniscient god or not basically demonstrates the impossibility of knowing which one is acting (free will or determinism). So we make one choice, there is no way of knowing, within our realm of understanding, whether that choice was governed by free will for determined before we already made it. It seems to me, like many other questions in the realm of religion, to be a matter of faith. There is no logic behind it, if anything, there arises a contradiction, but these beliefs in god/determinism as well as free will are founded in faith.

It's really funny if you think about the choice of believing in determinism or free will as governed by the other :P. Do those people believe in free will because it was determined or was it a choice? /trollface

Also, I'm sure all you philosophy majors can lololololol all over my amateurishness :3
Why would god grant us logic, the only ability we have for understanding anything, and then limit it in such a way we can't understand him? Why would someone who purposely did this then punish/reward us eternally based on whether or not we believe in something that exceeded our intellectual capability: him? How can this god be called "just" and "fair"?

It doesn't add up.
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#40
03-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
I was just trying to contribute to a very interesting conversation, but you guys are seriously not making sense to me. What did I say that made you assume my misunderstanding of what I said?
It's that you don't understand what the argument actually is.

Also, you must not have looked hard in yr bible:

http://bible.cc/acts/13-48.htm
Quote:
When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed
http://niv.scripturetext.com/romans/8-29.htm
Quote:
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
http://niv.scripturetext.com/romans/9-11.htm

http://bible.cc/ephesians/1-4.htm
Quote:
just as he chose us in the Messiah before the creation of the universe to be holy and blameless in his presence.
http://bible.cc/2_timothy/1-9.htm
Quote:
who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
http://bible.cc/jude/1-4.htm
Quote:
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation
&c&c&c



Of course, there are actually more verses supporting the idea that the Christian god is not omniscient by any stretch of the imagination than there are that support it. Irreconcilable contradictions all up ins.

Also, plenty of cases of god repenting. Oops.
Spoiler!

Last edited by davobrosia; 03-30-2011 at 01:33 PM.
 

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