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briansoupy
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#161
09-01-2011
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Not totally understanding the positions being taken, but I think it's worth establishing that in a determinist world it's not the case that you are deciding anything but it's also not that case that any conscious entity is deciding anything. Decision is kind of a meaningless concept in a determinist framework. You do what you do not by some conscious deliberation but because of the causal chain leading up to the instant of "decision".
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#162
09-01-2011
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Cue why free will is irrelevant.

You can't, with confidence, that all your actions were not of a deterministic nature simply because you believe there to be no causal repercussions unbeknownst to yourself.
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#163
09-01-2011
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Free will is still hugely relevant in that it's assumed existence forms the basis for big chunks of language, the legal system, and democratic process. Actually, ardent materialism notwithstanding, free will was pretty much universally assumed until the 20th century.

edit- To expand I think it's an interesting phenomenon how ever since Nietzsche it seems like the intelligentsia is crazy eager to overthrow anything that seems vaguely conservative or antiquated. Just look at some of the important philosophical claims of the last 100 years or so:
"God is dead"
"There is no truth"
"There is no morality"
"The author is dead"

That's why I feel as if much of philosophy is highly politicized or at least subject to this insurgent mood that's been lingering around (for better or worse).
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Last edited by briansoupy; 09-01-2011 at 07:20 PM.
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#164
09-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDevy View Post
Cue why free will is irrelevant.

You can't, with confidence, that all your actions were not of a deterministic nature simply because you believe there to be no causal repercussions unbeknownst to yourself.
I still don't really understand what you are saying. For some reason I'm reading your sentences as fragments that I can't make sense of. I can't, with confidence...can't what?

I don't really get the points being made either lol. Even with free will only one choice will be made, so if you wind back the clocks the choice will always be that one. I currently accept Ayer's definition of free will, until of course NEXT CLASS LOLOL

Just to be clear, I was never arguing against determinism and already stated that I guess soft determinism seems to satisfy me the most.
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#165
09-01-2011
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"can't say" is what he was going for, I think.
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#166
09-01-2011
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Given the way the discussion is going, I thought it might be interesting to post how current philosophers view this issue. This is from a survey given to professional philosophers in 2009 and was taken by 3226 respondents, including 1803 philosophy faculty members and/or PhDs and 829 philosophy graduate students.

Quote:
Free will: compatibilism, libertarianism, or no free will?
Accept or lean toward: compatibilism 550 / 931 (59%)
Other 139 / 931 (14.9%)
Accept or lean toward: libertarianism 128 / 931 (13.7%)
Accept or lean toward: no free will 114 / 931 (12.2%)
Check out the other philosophical questions they surveyed if you're interested: http://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl

And Bjorn, who's teaching your philosophy class?
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#167
09-01-2011
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Greg Ray. Yay tapatalk. You ever go to gatorlans anymore? I went to the one that just happened. They did have street fighter there.

Sent from my Samsung Vibrant using Tapatalk.
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#168
09-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briansoupy View Post
"can't say" is what he was going for, I think.
^ It was just a typo, bjorn.
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#169
09-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorn_248 View Post
Greg Ray. Yay tapatalk. You ever go to gatorlans anymore? I went to the one that just happened. They did have street fighter there.

Sent from my Samsung Vibrant using Tapatalk.
You're lucky to have Dr. Ray--usually he just sticks to teaching graduate logic courses and upper level metaphysics. I'm actually a little jealous.

Just to stay on topic, I'm hoping to make a thread this weekend covering some philosophy issues that haven't been done to death here yet. This section needs to come back to life.
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#170
09-01-2011
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So, davo kind of surmised this whole thing even before you brought it up after bjorn -- what don't you quite understand again?
 

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