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bjorn_248
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#121
04-23-2011
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After doing some reading, I've found this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php...&id=2223#comic
Errare humanum est

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#122
04-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorn_248 View Post
After doing some reading, I've found this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php...&id=2223#comic
Lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flench View Post
The bible was written by men, which hardcore bible quoters tend to forget. It's not perfect.
Not hardly. It's fairly common knowledge that biblical scholars and theologians hold the position that while scripture wasn't physically written by god, he was the driving force behind the people who did physically write scripture. They believe scriptures are god breathed--same Hebraic word used to describe god's action of breathing life into Adam and Eve--and that he inspired these people to write these accounts. Therefore it is infallible and perfect in their understanding since it all stems from god's doing and his sovereignty.

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#123
04-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sC DeLAy View Post

Not hardly. It's fairly common knowledge that biblical scholars and theologians hold the position that while scripture wasn't physically written by god, he was the driving force behind the people who did physically write scripture. They believe scriptures are god breathed--same Hebraic word used to describe god's action of breathing life into Adam and Eve--and that he inspired these people to write these accounts. Therefore it is infallible and perfect in their understanding since it all stems from god's doing and his sovereignty.

Good luck finding an objective source verifying that.

Also, if a perfect God was responsible for the content of the Bible, how do you justify the inconsistencies in the book?
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#124
04-23-2011
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Let's drop the pretenses to objectivity here.
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#125
04-23-2011
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This was my pitch on MLGPro...

Quote:
1. God is omniscient, which is described as necessarily knowing which events will come to pass in reality.
2. God was omniscient prior to the creation of the universe.
3. God is omnipotent, which is described as having material dominance over all things.
4. In his omnipotence, God had the ability to create the universe with an initial set of conditions either A or B. In universe A, you like ice cream. In universe B, you do not.
5. All empirically true things have dependent conditions, including the state of a human mind. This is unavoidably true, regardless of the source of the dependency (causality, God's divine foreknowledge, etc.).
6. God created universe B.
7. In creating the universe, God manufactured every specific factor that could possibly influence a "free" decision, for there are no elements to human decision-making that escape him.
8. If there are no unforeseen things by God, then he was aware that in the moment of genesis for universe B, you would not like ice cream.
9. To like ice cream in universe B would be a violation of God's necessary foreknowledge, which we have defined as inevitable.
10. You cannot like ice cream in universe B, the universe that you exist in.
11. (10) shall apply for whatever characteristic, in whatever possible universe conceived by God.
12. "Free will" shall be defined as the capability to make a decision contrary to all influencing factors.
13. You do not have free will.


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#126
04-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
This was my pitch on MLGPro...
That thread is so sad.
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#127
04-24-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
This was my pitch on MLGPro...

Quote:
1. God is omniscient, which is described as necessarily knowing which events will come to pass in reality.
2. God was omniscient prior to the creation of the universe.
3. God is omnipotent, which is described as having material dominance over all things.
4. In his omnipotence, God had the ability to create the universe with an initial set of conditions either A or B. In universe A, you like ice cream. In universe B, you do not.
5. All empirically true things have dependent conditions, including the state of a human mind. This is unavoidably true, regardless of the source of the dependency (causality, God's divine foreknowledge, etc.).
6. God created universe B.
7. In creating the universe, God manufactured every specific factor that could possibly influence a "free" decision, for there are no elements to human decision-making that escape him.
8. If there are no unforeseen things by God, then he was aware that in the moment of genesis for universe B, you would not like ice cream.
9. To like ice cream in universe B would be a violation of God's necessary foreknowledge, which we have defined as inevitable.
10. You cannot like ice cream in universe B, the universe that you exist in.
11. (10) shall apply for whatever characteristic, in whatever possible universe conceived by God.
12. "Free will" shall be defined as the capability to make a decision contrary to all influencing factors.
13. You do not have free will.
But it seems to me that you're assuming time applies to God the same as it does us. As in, he's traveling through time like we are, but he just happens to know the future. What if he's somehow outside of time, so that from his point of view, we've freely made all of the decisions we'll ever make over the course of our entire lives? He just sets the initial conditions, introduces some uncertainty, and rolls the dice.

Of course, I don't believe that. But if you accept the existence of God and some of the incredible properties attributed to him, that seems like a decent counterpoint to me, effectively undermining your argument.

Personally, I think we do have free will, in some sense, and I think it's instructive to consider it an emergent phenomena arising from the complexity of our material brain.

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 04-24-2011 at 03:52 AM.
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#128
04-24-2011
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Hey guys, I've never read a single word about free-will, but am utterly convinced of my vaguely formulated position on it. And that's now your problem.

Without reflecting on what 'free' or 'will' mean, or you know, reading what anyone else has written on the subject, I've got a slapped together opinion on the subject. I've never heard the word 'compatibalism' in my life, and won't respond if you try to explain it to me.
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#129
08-12-2011
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Hey, guys. I'm a dіck.
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#130
08-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer View Post
But it seems to me that you're assuming time applies to God the same as it does us. As in, he's traveling through time like we are, but he just happens to know the future. What if he's somehow outside of time, so that from his point of view, we've freely made all of the decisions we'll ever make over the course of our entire lives? He just sets the initial conditions, introduces some uncertainty, and rolls the dice.

Of course, I don't believe that. But if you accept the existence of God and some of the incredible properties attributed to him, that seems like a decent counterpoint to me, effectively undermining your argument.

Personally, I think we do have free will, in some sense, and I think it's instructive to consider it an emergent phenomena arising from the complexity of our material brain.
As far as I'm concerned, you just hit the f..king nail on the head. God is timeless, theoretically speaking, and our rules don't apply to him and vice versa. I remember discussing this very subject in my Philosophy of Religion class last year, and I seem to remember that one of the main points about God was that he exists outside of our realm of time and space. You have to remember that he is GOD, so even if he did know the future, that doesn't mean that we don't have free-will. He exists outside of our world, and if he does exist, we probably can't even fathom what he is or what he can possibly do. Traveling to the future could easily be a cake-walk for him, but that doesn't mean that our decisions and experiences are pre-determined.
 

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