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MarkedAchilles
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#61
12-11-2005
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Think about why religion wanted to control breeding like that?

In the old days when laws were not enough to regulate people if everyone just had sex there would be children out there with mothers and no husbands to provide for them. Disease was also a concern but not as much as pregnancy. It was an effort to save people from themselves that only the church could do at the time b/c they were the only entity out there that people were truely afraid of. Excomunication and going to hell is a big thing to scare people with so they do what ya want.

By making it wrong and a sin they were protecting women and the children. Now we have laws governing this and paternity tests protecting the men etc. It is no longer necessary to be scared of sex, just be ready to accept the consequences. You can have it without having a child, just you may get something else.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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Vrbas
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#62
12-11-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
You think purity is a gift to give to your future wife because of your religious beliefs (I define purity differently, but I'll use your definition for the sake of this argument). Outside of religion, it doesn't matter who you have sex with first. If I don't get married to the first girl I have sex with, I'm not going to consider my first time a waste because I don't view your kind of purity as important. Having sex with someone in a responsible manner does not defile you, except in a religious sense. And with the way I am, I'd rather please the girl than please myself. I'm pretty sure that's not too selfish. I don't do what I want just because I want to do it. I strive to do whatever I want as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

You're right, just because sex is there, we don't have to take full advantage of it, but outside of religion, it's not wrong to take full advantage of it. We shouldn't control desires just because they're desires, we should control wrong desires, and sexual desires are not wrong. Sex is only bad when the people having it are not mature enough to understand all the ramifications and go about it in a responsible manner. That's the only way it's bad, and that's not what I'm advocating at all. The only waste I see is not having sex sooner.
I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder then. Nothing i say can make sense to you. That's how i feel. I'm sure you feel the same about me.

All i'm saying is that Christian, non-Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Buddist, whatever you are, purity is purity. I believe there is straight up purity outside of religion. There is purity within religion. Do you even believe there is such a thing as "purity"? Sex is a gift. Purity is a gift. It is the one of the most ULTIMATE acts of selfLESSNESS. When you save yourself for your wife and present that gift that you've held off on "opening" for soo long and say "Here Mrs., i have saved EVERYTHING for you on this day. This is my ULTIMATE gift to you." She doesn't want a beat up, torn up, half wrapped, peaked in, Christmas present. She wants it new. She wants it to be neat. She wants it to be PERFECT. Girls are like that you know. Kinda like moms with the Christmas decorations. If you find a girl that wants a "used" or "peaked in" xmas present, you got yourself an odd girl. One i've never heard of and one i'm sure everyone else hasn't either.

Last edited by Vrbas; 12-11-2005 at 08:16 PM.
MarkedAchilles
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#63
12-11-2005
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I do agree with Vrbas on the purity thing. It is nice to save yourself for your wife, great gift in marriage. Kind of wish I could of saved my self like that. But you miss out on a lot of fun and experiences, so I will get her a bigger ring.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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Vrbas
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#64
12-11-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
I do agree with Vrbas on the purity thing. It is nice to save yourself for your wife, great gift in marriage. Kind of wish I could of saved my self like that. But you miss out on a lot of fun and experiences, so I will get her a bigger ring.
I respect that you call it "fun and experience". True, i'm sure it is fun and it is experience. But that's not what i'm looking for and i've heard WAAY too many stories about how that's screwed marriage up. I respect your beliefs about that though.
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#65
12-11-2005
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it really doesnt matter..theres nothing different happening to you that you have to "save" yourself for the "right one"..but in a girls situation its a little different, she goes through physical changes after any kind of intercourse with a blunt object
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z
omg 1st post... edit when done


The Colostomizer
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#66
12-11-2005
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MarkedAchilles, you're right about why sex is considered bad in the Bible. Most of the laws of the Old Testament were in place to protect people. After the Bible had been around for a while though, it evolved into something else. Think about orders of Christian monks from the Middle Ages. They would intentionally eat plain, crappy food, wear uncomfortable clothes, sleep on terrible cots on the floor, and abstain from sex. It turned into a backwards way of thinking: "If it feels good, it's sinful." Few people take it to the extreme like the monks I'm talking about, except when it comes to sex. A lot of people continue to feel shameful when they experience pleasure. Religion gave us the "gift" of shame.

You only have to accept the consequences of sex if you have sex irresponsibly. If you and your partner get tested for STDs and refrain from having intercourse, you've got nothing to worry about.

You know what it seems like Vrbas? It seems like a lot people who aren't willing to accept religion still accept some of its tenets, and when it comes to waiting for their future wives, those people are wrong. Purity to me, in terms of sex, is never having irresponsible sex, never getting a STD, never getting a girl pregnant before you're ready for kids. "She doesn't want a beat up, torn up, half wrapped, peaked in, Christmas present. She wants it new. She wants it to be neat. She wants it to be PERFECT." How does not waiting tangibly make you "torn up" and "half wrapped?" How does not waiting make you less "neat" or less "perfect?" The "used" gift you speak of is only "used" in the girl's mind if she looks at purity the same way you do. There's no good reason to look at someone who hasn't waited as less pure. Think about it like this: if I have responsible sex before getting married, and then I get married but don't tell my wife I'm not a virgin, she's not going to be able to know. Now, I wouldn't lie to my future wife, but I'm trying to show you that not waiting has no tangible effect; it's only in your head. If it's just in your head, it's unreasonable, and you should drop it. People only think purity is necessary because they think it's necessary. That's not a good reason.

I figure that you'll be shaking your head about now, so I want to make sure you think about this. If you've got it in your head that something is bad, but there's no tangible reason for it being bad, is your belief about it justified?

Just because you can't understand a girl who doesn't have the same stigmas about sex that you do doesn't mean she doesn't exist. The problem for me is that they're few and far between because this unjustified notion of purity so thoroughly permeates our society. Premarital sex only screws up marriages because people have gotten it into their heads that it's wrong.

Your concept of purity is unjustified, and all it serves to do is to prevent people from enjoying responsible sex.

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 01-02-2006 at 04:58 PM.
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#67
12-11-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
"She doesn't want a beat up, torn up, half wrapped, peaked in, Christmas present. She wants it new. She wants it to be neat. She wants it to be PERFECT." How does not waiting tangibly make you "torn up" and "half wrapped?" How does not waiting make you less "neat" or less "perfect?" The "used" gift you speak of is only "used" in the girl's mind if she looks at purity the same way you do. There's no good reason to look at someone who hasn't waited as less pure. Think about it like this: if I have responsible sex before getting married, and then I get married but don't tell my wife I'm not a virgin, she's not going to be able to know. Now, I wouldn't lie to my future wife, but I'm trying to show you that not waiting has no tangible effect; it's only in your head. If it's just in your head, it's unreasonable, and you should drop it. People only think purity is necessary because they think it's necessary. That's not a good reason.
Ever heard of the term "Virginity"? That's the gift that you only got one of. That is purity.

You don't understand me because i believe something TOTALLY different than what you believe.

You'll never understand until you are in my shoes. I was in your shoes before.

Last edited by Vrbas; 12-11-2005 at 10:17 PM.
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#68
12-11-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Ever heard of the term "Virginity"? That's the gift that you only got one of. That is purity.

You don't understand me because i believe something TOTALLY different than what you believe.

You'll never understand until you are in my shoes. I was in your shoes before.
I'm just saying that there's no tangible effect to losing your virginity. You know what I mean when I say tangible, right? Can we agree on that?

I do understand you, because I have also been in your shoes. I used to be Christian. I accepted the Bible as truth. I believed premarital sex was wrong, and that was justified within my religious beliefs because the Bible said so. That was when I was a little kid and I didn't know enough to question authority and come up with my own conclusions.
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#69
12-11-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
I'm just saying that there's no tangible effect to losing your virginity. You know what I mean when I say tangible, right? Can we agree on that?

I do understand you, because I have also been in your shoes. I used to be Christian. I accepted the Bible as truth. I believed premarital sex was wrong, and that was justified within my religious beliefs because the Bible said so. That was when I was a little kid and I didn't know enough to question authority and come up with my own conclusions.
I would like you to tell me your Testimony. How did you become saved? When did this happen? What did you say? Who was with you? Did you say the sinners prayer? What did you think YOU had to do to become a Christian?

These questions will help clarify whether or not you were "sincere" about your acceptance.
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#70
12-11-2005
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I grew up Christian. I didn't have to say the sinner's prayer, I didn't have to have anyone with me at a certain moment, all that I had to do was to accept that God existed and that he loved me and everything else you get taught in Sunday school. If someone asked me whether or not I was Christian, I said yes, and I meant it. I had faith that God existed. I sincerely believed.

You should answer my question though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
I'm just saying that there's no tangible effect to losing your virginity. You know what I mean when I say tangible, right? Can we agree on that?
 

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