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ReVeLaTioN
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#21
07-16-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceGuy View Post
I have a sneaking suspicion OP has never tried any form of hallucinogen.
I actually smoked DMT two weeks ago.. thats why I bought the book. My experience on it wasn't quite as intense as in the study but that's probably because they were getting injected with gigantic doses. I'm going to do it again without pot mixed in. I think that may have been why I didn't quite "break through" to the full fledged DMT world. I'm pretty sure I saw my dead grandma though, as a girl, which was a little fucking creepy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by General AI View Post
And as for the topic itself, people were injected with a chemical that caused intense hallucinations and weird things happened to them. So?
Ha, So?.. That's exactly the point. Were the weird things just weird? Or do they symbolize deeper meaning and the presence of a sort of spiritual world. Dr. Strassman, professor of psychiatry at UNM, seemed to think that they did. He pointed out several weird coincidences that may back up his point. Like how the Tibetan book of the Dead preaches that it takes 49 days for a soul to reincarnate itself after death; and it takes exactly 49 days after conception for the pineal gland to form itself in a fetus.

I mean you guys are right, the idea of some sort of "spiritual world" is fucking ludicrous. Any logical person would probably chalk up visions and vibes from "spiritual beings" as just the brain playing tricks on itself. With mushrooms and LSD this seems totally true -- like distorted perceptions and shit; but for some reason, with DMT, it seems like something more.

Next week I'm hopefully going to be able to get another half g of the golden powder. I will investigate further.
A man's errors are his portals of discovery. -- James Joyce
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#22
07-16-2009
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Thought:

Drugs alter your consciousness. Your brain is connecting in ways it is not used to doing. What you see during these things are combinations of parts of your brain trying to work together when they do not do normally.

The products of these interactions could be 2 things.

1. Your brain trying to protect you from hurting yourself. It shuts down parts of your system or tries to and the hallucinations you are seeing are parts of your brain working independently when they are normally working in a tandem.

2. Your brain allows the new connections and interactions because of the new chemicals introduced as there is not homeostatic control to a reaction that is not a normal one in this case. When you introduce a foreign chemical to your system unless it has a general override to balance out that chemical or a specific one for that chemical it will create new reactions and connections. The leads to parts of your brain working in tandem that normally do not and the halluncinations you experience are that product or even a burn out of certain parts of your brain being overloaded from increased input where there normally is not.

So. . .

In both cases your hallucinations are products of your brain acting in response to the chemical introduced and the colors, visions, feelings you see, pictures, are all products of parts of your body and specifically brain working in ways it is not meant to.

This is all within your brain though, with some stimulus coming from your surroundings.

The new interactions could lead to an enhanced ability to sense things outside of you, the new connections allowed may lead to you sensing something from your environment that you could not do unless your brain is hotwired as such.

This is of course without evidence though, but a fun thing to think about.

The most likely, and evidence supported result of this process is that you are crossing your brain and possibly causing damage to it. This is something you see in most drug use. The damage done to the brain in most cases is partially repaired or negligable in many drugs (LSD) and goes undiagnosed most of the time.

But since it is something we have seen before, and has been measured, it would be a much better bet than the drug connecting you to a supernatural world. I could lean a bit more to being able to sense someone touching you, hearing things you wouldn't, or seeing things you wouldn't without the drug but connecting to a wormhole of another universe is a bit of a stretch.

But fun to think of.


EDIT: Get a real job philosophy freaks!


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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#23
07-23-2009
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DMT: The Spirit Molecule.... should get the book =D....I believe ive experienced DMT....NATURALLY..."if" you took ecstasy...feels like the same thing"... I believe i explain in my experiences with phenomenons like these.....



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Last edited by gotzeus; 07-23-2009 at 06:41 AM.
ReVeLaTioN
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#24
07-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles View Post
So. . .

In both cases your hallucinations are products of your brain acting in response to the chemical introduced and the colors, visions, feelings you see, pictures, are all products of parts of your body and specifically brain working in ways it is not meant to.

This is all within your brain though, with some stimulus coming from your surroundings.
I completely get what your saying, and I'm sure that if you look at a brain under a microscope during a DMT trip it would display just that -- (chemical imbalances and misfirings across synapses). But isn't using that to support the insignificance of a trip similar to when people claim that evolution disproves the existence of God? For instance, I myself am a Pre-Med and a Biology major, and I know that evolution obviously happened. Thermal vents at the bottom of the sea most likely synthesized the first basic organisms and through natural selection we ended up where we are now. It's basically been proven. This realization of our evolution from microorganisms, however, doesn't make me an Athiest. If anything, it makes my faith in God stronger. Just because I know the scientific background to a situation, doesn't mean there isn't something spiritually deeper being represented. In the case of evolution and creation of our natural world, it seems too fucking insane to happen without a higher guiding force.

This same concept could be applied to DMT. Although our scientific minds perceive the chemical misfirings in our brain, and they are in fact occuring, doesn't mean the visions aren't "real". It reminds me of a line in the last Harry Potter book (Yeah, I'm kind of a nerd). Anyway, Harry is knocked unconscious and plunges into a hallucinatory dream-like trip. He sees a bunch of crazy shit and eventually meets up with Dumbledore. Harry, thinking that he is going crazy, asks Dumbledore, "Is this real? Or is all this just in my head." Dumbledore responds, "Well, Harry, of course it's all just in your head. But why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" I guess the conversation calls into question how one perceives the world. Some people view it through the eyes of an existentialist, that everything is just the way it is because it is. They feel that we live on a flat plane and proceed through life in a basic physical sense; that we are bound by the laws of science and are confined to a static world. This view actually makes the most sense. Tons of brilliant people think that way, and I have respect for them.

But then there's another group of people. People like Einstein who, the more they studied the Universe, felt that that there has to be a higher power and/or a spiritual existence in our lives. That there is just too much crazy shit for there not to be. I too feel this way, and think the world spins too perfectly for there not to be a God. Maybe its because I'm scared at the idea that we're alone in this world, I don't know. But at any rate, I understand Atheists and those who look at things in a physical sense.
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#25
07-23-2009
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Quote:
Some people view it through the eyes of an existentialist, that everything is just the way it is because it is. They feel that we live on a flat plane and proceed through life in a basic physical sense; that we are bound by the laws of science and are confined to a static world. This view actually makes the most sense. Tons of brilliant people think that way, and I have respect for them.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
But then there's another group of people. People like Einstein who, the more they studied the Universe, felt that that there has to be a higher power and/or a spiritual existence in our lives. That there is just too much crazy sh.t for there not to be. I too feel this way, and think the world spins too perfectly for there not to be a God.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
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#26
07-23-2009
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"I don't get it, therefore God."
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ReVeLaTioN
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#27
07-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davobrosia View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about.


You have no idea what you're talking about.
And I could use other quotes from Einstein showing his belief in a greater power, or God-like force. Even scholars disagree on whether or not he was spiritual. Anyway, that's irrelevant to the concept posed in the paragraph.

Lol, and I also might have misused the term "existentialist"; but I was just trying to say that the world is basically divided between people that believe in a spiritual existence/or world and those that don't.
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#28
07-23-2009
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Deep.
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#29
07-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReVeLaTioN View Post
I completely get what your saying, and I'm sure that if you look at a brain under a microscope during a DMT trip it would display just that -- (chemical imbalances and misfirings across synapses). But isn't using that to support the insignificance of a trip similar to when people claim that evolution disproves the existence of God? For instance, I myself am a Pre-Med and a Biology major, and I know that evolution obviously happened. Thermal vents at the bottom of the sea most likely synthesized the first basic organisms and through natural selection we ended up where we are now. It's basically been proven. This realization of our evolution from microorganisms, however, doesn't make me an Athiest. If anything, it makes my faith in God stronger. Just because I know the scientific background to a situation, doesn't mean there isn't something spiritually deeper being represented. In the case of evolution and creation of our natural world, it seems too f..king insane to happen without a higher guiding force.

This same concept could be applied to DMT. Although our scientific minds perceive the chemical misfirings in our brain, and they are in fact occuring, doesn't mean the visions aren't "real". It reminds me of a line in the last Harry Potter book (Yeah, I'm kind of a nerd). Anyway, Harry is knocked unconscious and plunges into a hallucinatory dream-like trip. He sees a bunch of crazy sh.t and eventually meets up with Dumbledore. Harry, thinking that he is going crazy, asks Dumbledore, "Is this real? Or is all this just in my head." Dumbledore responds, "Well, Harry, of course it's all just in your head. But why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?" I guess the conversation calls into question how one perceives the world. Some people view it through the eyes of an existentialist, that everything is just the way it is because it is. They feel that we live on a flat plane and proceed through life in a basic physical sense; that we are bound by the laws of science and are confined to a static world. This view actually makes the most sense. Tons of brilliant people think that way, and I have respect for them.

But then there's another group of people. People like Einstein who, the more they studied the Universe, felt that that there has to be a higher power and/or a spiritual existence in our lives. That there is just too much crazy sh.t for there not to be. I too feel this way, and think the world spins too perfectly for there not to be a God. Maybe its because I'm scared at the idea that we're alone in this world, I don't know. But at any rate, I understand Atheists and those who look at things in a physical sense.
Evolution has nothing to do with god. It does not disprove or prove the existence of god.

Chemical activity in the brain does have something to do with evolution though. Our brain has evolved many ways of protecting it. When things get crossed that are not supposed to be crossed it balances it out in most cases. Or shuts down like in a coma in order to protect it.

These are all things that are handy when eating new foods and getting around the wilderness gathering new forms of plant life for food.

In the case of this specific drug an imbalance or crossfire is created and it is not balanced out in the traditional ways.

This is the visions you experience. There is evidence of this that is quite clear. Like I said before, I am not sure if it is because of the new connections made, or if it is because connections are severed to protect parts of the brain. Either way stimuli is interpreted differently.

Like when people taste sounds or vice versa.

Saying that these visions are of god, is a leap for no reason at all. There is pretty good evidence and explanations that give you a ryme and reason behind them but making a leap in a direction that has no reason to suspect it is a bit nutty.

Its like saying those visions are because we are at war in the middle east.

Just as logical as anything else that doesn't have anything grounding it.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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#30
07-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceGuy View Post
"I don't get it, therefore God."
Yeah, Otherwise commonly known to theists as the God-of-gaps fallacy.

It is illogical and irrational to use this sort of argument.
 

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