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WiZaNe
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#321
01-01-2006
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I love you Lemon...Way to destroy all others ideas...Your a smart man...Its tempting but its better to wait...
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#322
01-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArabSoldier
I love you Lemon...Way to destroy all others ideas...Your a smart man...Its tempting but its better to wait...
Arab! We must play some MLG soon! I'm sick of bad kids!


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#323
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer

You're absolutely right. I am going to abuse that statement. If God expects me to live my entire life glorifying Him, He'd damn well better answer to me.
Holy smokes man! Did you not hear me the first time. HE GAVE YOU THE LIFE YOU LIVE!!! What right does He NOT have to demand whatever the heck he wants. He deserves more than we have to offer so He can ask for whatever He pleases. It's like your parents just bought you a car. They bought you the car and they can EASILY take it away in a flash if you aren't grateful and do what they ask. You OWE them. We OWE God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
I'd also like to see me disprove your beliefs. But it's so hard with people of such strong convictions. You're so convinced that I could never dissuade you. You've got a completely closed mind when it comes to anything that conflicts with your religious beliefs.

"It is time we recognized that the only thing that permits human beings to collaborate with one another in a truly open-ended way is their willingness to have their beliefs modified by new facts. Only openness to evidence and argument will secure a common world for us. Nothing guarantees that reasonable people will agree about everything, of course, but the unreasonable are certain to be divided by their dogmas. This spirit of mutual inquiry is the very antithesis of religious faith." - Sam Harris
So basically you are bent on converting me? To what? Changing me from "believing in something" to "believing in nothing"? What satisfaction can that bring?

Last edited by Vrbas; 01-02-2006 at 02:04 AM.
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#324
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Holy smokes man! Did you not hear me the first time. HE GAVE YOU THE LIFE YOU LIVE!!! What right does He NOT have to demand whatever the heck he wants. He deserves more than we have to offer so He can ask for whatever He pleases. It's like your parents just bought you a car. They bought you the car and they can EASILY take it away in a flash if you aren't grateful and do what they ask. You OWE them. We OWE God.



So basically you are bent on converting me? To what? Changing me from "believing in something" to "believing in nothing"? What satisfaction can that bring?
Nothing. I take comfort in my belief in God, and sometimes wish others felt the same way I do. But if others are contempt in their beliefs (acknowledging God or not), I don't want to interfere.
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#325
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Holy smokes man! Did you not hear me the first time. HE GAVE YOU THE LIFE YOU LIVE!!! What right does He NOT have to demand whatever the heck he wants. He deserves more than we have to offer so He can ask for whatever He pleases. It's like your parents just bought you a car. They bought you the car and they can EASILY take it away in a flash if you aren't grateful and do what they ask. You OWE them. We OWE God.
Vrbas, I can't appreciate Him giving me life if I don't believe He exists. If He did, then yeah, He'd deserve glorification. But it doesn't matter that He'd deserve it or not. An omnipotent being by definition would have no use for glorification. Sure, He'd deserve it, but He wouldn't ask for it. You can't compare my parents to God because my parents aren't very omnipotent. Once again, I can't believe that I owe God if I don't believe He exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
So basically you are bent on converting me? To what? Changing me from "believing in something" to "believing in nothing"? What satisfaction can that bring?
Yes, I am bent on converting you. To agnosticism, which is only believing in no religious matters absolutely without proof. I'd rather everyone had the same religious views (or lack of religious views) as me. That's because I think the world would be a better place if this happened. I'd rather everyone was right, and for me to see everyone as right, they've got to drop Christianity.

How come you think you can say you're right because you have faith that you're right, but Muslims are wrong when they say the same thing?
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#326
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
Vrbas, I can't appreciate Him giving me life if I don't believe He exists. If He did, then yeah, He'd deserve glorification. But it doesn't matter that He'd deserve it or not. An omnipotent being by definition would have no use for glorification. Sure, He'd deserve it, but He wouldn't ask for it. You can't compare my parents to God because my parents aren't very omnipotent. Once again, I can't believe that I owe God if I don't believe He exists.

Yes, I am bent on converting you. To agnosticism, which is only believing in no religious matters absolutely without proof. I'd rather everyone had the same religious views (or lack of religious views) as me. That's because I think the world would be a better place if this happened. I'd rather everyone was right, and for me to see everyone as right, they've got to drop Christianity.

How come you think you can say you're right because you have faith that you're right, but Muslims are wrong when they say the same thing?
What do you know? You're not God. He is above and beyond our understanding. Think about it, if we could understand God, then there would be no reason to believe. If we could understand Him then He wouldn't be God. It doesn't matter if you believe He exists or not, that doesn't make Him "not" exist. I can EASILY believe that air is nothing more than a myth and completely abandon the belief that it exists. Yet that doesn't make it so.

There is one primary difference between us when it comes to the "conversion" factor. You want to make me believe what you do out of pride. On the other hand I am commanded to expand the Kingdom of God. So in short you do it for your pride and i do it for God. See the difference. It's quite obvious.

Muslims didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God. Don't get me started.

Last edited by Vrbas; 01-02-2006 at 02:45 PM.
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#327
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
What do you know? You're not God. He is above and beyond our understanding. Think about it, if we could understand God, then there would be no reason to believe. If we could understand Him then He wouldn't be God. It doesn't matter if you believe He exists or not, that doesn't make Him "not" exist. I can EASILY believe that air is nothing more than a myth and completely abandon the belief that it exists. Yet that doesn't make it so.
As long as I assume He's perfect, I don't have to understand God to know that He doesn't want glorification. By definition, a perfect being would not want glorification. If you stopped believing in air, what would you be breathing? Air is something we can sense. We can breathe air, so we know it exists (at least on some level). There is no proof of God.

Let's get one thing straight. (I thought that I said this to you before, but I might not have.) I don't hold it as a truism that there's no God. I find it more likely that there is a God. I'm not going to say for sure because I don't know for sure. So, I'm not saying that God doesn't exist because I don't believe in Him, I'm saying that He might not exist because I have no proof that He does. And can't you understand that you're doing exactly what you're condemning? You're saying that God doesn't cease to exist if I don't believe in Him, but that's a two-sided coin. God doesn't exist just because you believe in him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
There is one primary difference between us when it comes to the "conversion" factor. You want to make me believe what you do out of pride. On the other hand I am commanded to expand the Kingdom of God. So in short you do it for your pride and i do it for God. See the difference. It's quite obvious.
It is not out of pride. I explained why I'd like you to be agnostic. Did you not read my post? I want people to see certain things, including religion, like I see them. That means that I only want you to be agnostic because I'm agnostic. If I became convinced that agnosticism was wrong, but I kept trying to convert you because I didn't want to admit I was wrong, then it would be out of pride. But if my views changed, I'd completely drop my old views, admit I was wrong, and try and convert you to my new views. It's not pride, man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Muslims didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God. Don't get me started.
No, please do get started. I want to know exactly why faith is sufficient for justifying your beliefs but not Muslims'. Don't tell me how Christianity and Islam are different and how ridiculous the Koran is, because Muslims would say the same thing about you. Tell me why your faith is better than theirs.
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#328
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
It is not out of pride. I explained why I'd like you to be agnostic. Did you not read my post? I want people to see certain things, including religion, like I see them. That means that I only want you to be agnostic because I'm agnostic. If I became convinced that agnosticism was wrong, but I kept trying to convert you because I didn't want to admit I was wrong, then it would be out of pride. But if my views changed, I'd completely drop my old views, admit I was wrong, and try and convert you to my new views. It's not pride, man.

No, please do get started. I want to know exactly why faith is sufficient for justifying your beliefs but not Muslims'. Don't tell me how Christianity and Islam are different and how ridiculous the Koran is, because Muslims would say the same thing about you. Tell me why your faith is better than theirs.
Why? Why do you want people to see things the way you do? For your own personal gain. There is no doubt. Search yourself and come up with a LEGIT reason that isn't about YOU just getting US to think how YOU do. Getting people to think the way YOU do just for the sake of it or to "make the world better" IS pride. I on the other hand am commanded to convert. The Bible tells us to spread His Word throughout all kingdoms so that ALL might hear the good news. We aren't to convert on our own, we are to plant the seed. God can take care of the rest.

Jesus was the Son of God. That's what Christians believe. You know the story of Jesus and how He was sent by God to die on the Cross so that we may inherit eternal life. There is no need to retell the story. Muslims believe He was merely a prophet. Not just any but a prophet none the less.
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#329
01-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Why? Why do you want people to see things the way you do? For your own personal gain. There is no doubt. Search yourself and come up with a LEGIT reason that isn't about YOU just getting US to think how YOU do. Getting people to think the way YOU do just for the sake of it or to "make the world better" IS pride. I on the other hand am commanded to convert. The Bible tells us to spread His Word throughout all kingdoms so that ALL might hear the good news. We aren't to convert on our own, we are to plant the seed. God can take care of the rest.

Jesus was the Son of God. That's what Christians believe. You know the story of Jesus and how He was sent by God to die on the Cross so that we may inherit eternal life. There is no need to retell the story. Muslims believe He was merely a prophet. Not just any but a prophet none the less.

I think he is not trying to convert you. He is trying to make people look at why they believe in what they do. Not a lot of people know why they believe in what they do, no matter what age they are. They just have been doing it for so long it is a part of them.


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#330
01-02-2006
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i feel ya vrbas
 

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