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cheesegrady87
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#401
01-11-2006
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I've decided this discussion is in many ways fruitless. I think we both make good points, but both of our points are based on much deeper understandings of reality.

I say that there is a right and a wrong, and that there is A standard for decent behaviour.

From what I gather, you don't believe that A standard, but many standards that govern each individual.

Now if we don't agree on the very nature of decent behaviour, it seems a little pointless to be arguing about what is and what isn't decent behaviour, because we have yet to come to a concensus on that.

The real argument is whether or not good and bad exist. We must first decide that before we can decide what is good and what is bad.
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#402
01-12-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesegrady87
"If you don't think that sex can be solely about pleasure, then you will not be able to understand why other people think it can."

Man what a wonderful statement. So basically what you're trying to tell me is that because I don't agree with your opinion, I can't understand your opinion. I understand your opinion. You're trying to say that sex CAN be solely about pleasure. I am saying that sex CANNOT be boiled down simply to pleasure.

Trying to say that sex is only about pleasure is pretty much the same as saying eating is solely about pleasure. Yes, I will agree, pleasure is certainly an aspect of eating, but eating food cannot be boiled down simply to pleasure. Because eating also nourishes you. It gives you the vital things necessary to survival. Based on what you eat, it can make you fat, or it can make you healthy. You can most certainly abuse the pleasure of eating. If you eat wrong, you'll get fat. If you eat right, you'll hopefully be healthy.

Sex works in the same way. Pleasure is certainly an aspect of it. I'm certainly not in denial of it. I am saying that when you try to make pleasure the only aspect of sex worth looking at, you're missing the point. When you eat, you cannot turn on the pleasure and turn off the health affects. Likewise, when you have sex and try to turn off the psychological bonding with you partner and turn on the pleasure, you're doing something that fundamentally disagrees with the nature of the action.

People like to think they can turn off the emotion, and turn on the pleasure. Griffin, obviously you disagree. But seeing as how the both of us are woefully inexperienced when it comes to sex, I don't think either you nor I have much credibility when arguing for either side.

We therefore have to go off what we've heard from others and our own observations. Think of the more "sexually liberated" promiscuous people in our school. It seems to me that those are generally the people who don't have much moral reasoning in other parts of their lives as well. In fact, those teenages who do engage in promiscuity are generally the more depressed, drama obsessed strange teenage person. Now I know you'll probably say something to the affect of "oh well you're making assumptions." "Quit judging." "why should a few bad eggs spoil the fun for the rest of us." etc. I am not trying to judge, I am just analyzing what I have observed. I am just saying that the more upbeat happy people in this world are generally those who have a set of morals in the realm of sexuality. Looking at that, I think it's fair to say that the people who don't engage in promiscuous sex have something figured out...and that something figured out is definetley worth looking into.

oh and one more thing: whoever said something about women being traumatized and it's somehow their own fault: I dare you...I really dare you to say that to a woman who's been raped.

Oh yeah, and here's on emore thing: When scientific studies are conducted, the people who not only have the most sex, but the most satisfying sex are not the permiscuous people you would expect. The people with the most satisfying sex lives are married christians.
Sigh.

YOU can't have sex for pleasure. That doesn't mean other people can't, as well.

If I could eat "fake food" that would only give me the illusion of being full, and give me the pleasure of eating without actually nourishing me, I would do that a lot. The reason being is that I eat too much. Would this scenario be "morally wrong", too?

The stereotypes you're conjuring up are people who try to have sex without emotion and PH41L miserably. Why? Because they CAN'T separate emotion from sex, even though they try to, and bad shit happens. If you think sexual promiscuity denotes a "fucked up person" automatically, then you're sadly mistaken.

The COMPLETELY UNDENIABLE POINT that Colost and I are trying to make is that there are some people who can, in fact, separate sex from emotion. Those are the people who are fit to be promiscuous. I don't know the population ratio of people who are actually able to do this, nor does it matter. A person has to look at themselves before they go out and do shit like that. What about people who are unhappy with monogamous relationships? Would you say that "there's a psychological crisis" going on in their brains, telling them to get as much pleasure as possible?

And that last statement is the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard.


Elmo <3

Last edited by Cursed Lemon; 01-12-2006 at 12:11 AM.
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#403
01-20-2006
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It may not be Necissarily bad. but Christianity forbids it. God does'nt need a reason, he's testing mine and other's faith towards him. It's to show how much you love your Mate to basically kill your self to wait, and to show your love of God.

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#404
01-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [{FF}]LoSeR
It may not be Necissarily bad. but Christianity forbids it. God does'nt need a reason, he's testing mine and other's faith towards him. It's to show how much you love your Mate to basically kill your self to wait, and to show your love of God.
So, if God asked you to set a baby on fire, and He told you that the only reason was to test your faith and that the baby was completely innocent, you'd feel completely justified in burning the baby alive? Of course God needs a reason. If He doesn't, then there's nothing stopping Him from asking us to do evil things in His name.
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#405
01-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
So, if God asked you to set a baby on fire, and He told you that the only reason was to test your faith and that the baby was completely innocent, you'd feel completely justified in burning the baby alive? Of course God needs a reason. If He doesn't, then there's nothing stopping Him from asking us to do evil things in His name.
I'm sure you've heard the story of Abraham and Isaac, i assume. He was in almost the EXACT position you are speaking of. Genesis 22:2 "Then God said, 'Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about.'"

Hebrews 11:17-19 "By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.' Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death."

"The LORD will provide"--- Genesis 22:13

If you want the entire story i'd challenge you to read Genesis 22:1-19. It's quite a story. What i have presented you with is the key points.

You must understand that God tests us in different ways. Some in more extreme ways than others. But it's through these tests that we can truly prove to God we are faithful servants of Him. He will bless us when we pass the test. He's not just asking us to do "crazy stuff" for the sake of it or for "fun". I hope this helps you understand better.
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#406
01-21-2006
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Vrbas, how would you feel about that if you were Abraham's son? The story of God asking Abraham to make that sacrifice is another facet of the Bible I find to be completely irrational. How can a perfect being want to test your faith in Him so much that he'd ask you to kill your only son? It doesn't matter that God turns the son into a goat at the last second or whatever, it only matters that God asked Abraham in the first place to do something evil as a test of his faith.

It also makes no sense that a perfect being would consider responsible premarital sex a sin. There's no reason for it. The only argument you can make for God's case is that maintaining your purity for your future wife is important, but there's no reason for that either. That's just another thing God told you. It is completely illogical for a perfect being to deprive us of pleasure for no reason.

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 01-21-2006 at 10:55 AM.
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#407
01-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
Vrbas, how would you feel about that if you were Abraham's son? The story of God asking Abraham to make that sacrifice is another facet of the Bible I find to be completely irrational. How can a perfect being want to test your faith in Him so much that he'd ask you to kill your only son? It doesn't matter that God turns the son into a goat at the last second or whatever, it only matters that God asked Abraham in the first place to do something evil as a test of his faith.

It also makes no sense that a perfect being would consider responsible premarital sex a sin. There's no reason for it. The only argument you can make for God's case is that maintaining your purity for your future wife is important, but there's no reason for that either. That's just another thing God told you. It is completely illogical for a perfect being to deprive us of pleasure for no reason.
Well, God can do no wrong, He never does or tell us to do "Evil" things.

If God wanted my father to Sacrifice me I'd have to go with it. My family & I do not sacrifice, being that were not jewish. We're protestant

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#408
01-21-2006
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I, personally, don't know what to think of all this...and nor should anyone else. In the end, we all die and no one knows what happens to you. The key word there is knows. People can believe, but believing is not the same as knowing. That's why I think complex topics such as premarital sex are so, well, confusing.

In life, all you can do is guess. Ultimately, you will die and only then will you know if your decisions in life were worth it (going with my theme of uncertainty, maybe you won't know...you could just rot in the ground and that's that).

I'm Catholic, and I think it's safe to assume that everyone here knows just how hardcore conservative Catholics, in general, are. I believe in many Catholic beliefs, but some I disagree with. I'm still undecided on premarital sex. I'm 17 and still a virgin. As far as I'm concerned, I haven't screwed myself either way yet. I honestly don't know though.

I'm sure I contradicted myself quite a few times in this post, but I hope that at least some people got what I tried to explain.
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#409
01-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Shadow
I, personally, don't know what to think of all this...and nor should anyone else. In the end, we all die and no one knows what happens to you. The key word there is knows. People can believe, but believing is not the same as knowing. That's why I think complex topics such as premarital sex are so, well, confusing.

In life, all you can do is guess. Ultimately, you will die and only then will you know if your decisions in life were worth it (going with my theme of uncertainty, maybe you won't know...you could just rot in the ground and that's that).

I'm Catholic, and I think it's safe to assume that everyone here knows just how hardcore conservative Catholics, in general, are. I believe in many Catholic beliefs, but some I disagree with. I'm still undecided on premarital sex. I'm 17 and still a virgin. As far as I'm concerned, I haven't screwed myself either way yet. I honestly don't know though.

I'm sure I contradicted myself quite a few times in this post, but I hope that at least some people got what I tried to explain.
Are you a virgin by choice, or are you a virgin because no one has thrown the pussy at you yet?
You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor
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#410
01-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthjamaul
Are you a virgin by choice, or are you a virgin because no one has thrown the pussy at you yet?

It's my choice.

 

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