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PhilliesPhan
Auld Lang Syne
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#11
10-05-2008
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Ty for the vid. I actually watched all 10 minutes of it

Quote:
Originally Posted by JalapenoZ View Post
Yes, Faith in God may be irrational and nonsensical, But i would rather have something that gave meaning to my life, then nothing at all.
And if you understand that faith is both irrational and nonsensical, what's the point in the self-assuring blind faith. I'm more of the "truth-seeker" (and finder) I suppose we'll just agree to disagree.
Mobb was here.
Acheron
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#12
10-05-2008
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Great post, seriously one of the premier posts that actually have substance. Lemon, I applaud you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JalapenoZ View Post
Yes, Faith in God may be irrational and nonsensical, But i would rather have something that gave meaning to my life, then nothing at all.
You speak as if there is nothing but faith in God that will give your life meaning. What about family? What about contributing to the betterment of mankind? There is plenty that will allow you to feel, not just feel but KNOW, that your life has meaning other than having blind faith in a Supreme Being that others have written about.


'I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye.'

'I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind.'

'I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart.'

Vrbas
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#13
10-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
You speak as if there is nothing but faith in God that will give your life meaning. What about family? What about contributing to the betterment of mankind? There is plenty that will allow you to feel, not just feel but KNOW, that your life has meaning other than having blind faith in a Supreme Being that others have written about.
Perhaps maybe eternal worth. Everything we do in this life is a feeble attempt to overcome the inevitability of fleetingness. Most people don't look that deep though, they just "do". There's more to living than being alive.

Last edited by Vrbas; 10-09-2008 at 03:31 PM.
Prowl
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#14
10-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Video form for the textually challenged.

Thanks for the video, I wouldn't have read that wall of text without it.
BiShoP
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#15
10-13-2008
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Its been awhile, so let me ease myself in very nonchalantly.

"My issue with faith is certainly of the latter, that people of faith just flat out don't *think*." - Let's look objectively at that statement. I can provide hundreds if not thousands of examples of men (and women) in academia who have contributed in mass amounts to both the fields of science and mathematics. That sounds like it would be a massive contradiction to me. You can't make a generalization about faith when far more established individuals than yourself claim to have it.

It's quite ironic actually, that a many of the most successful mathematicians ever to live had faith. Mathematics, which is the most objective subject in terms of material has patrons advocating faith and the subjective. When you consider the amount of Sir Issac Newton's works of mathematics relative to his work on theology, the "subjective" faith and theology almost supercede his mathematical and scientific works 2:1. How is it possible that a man of such brilliance is susceptible to such "ignorance."

I'm not going to sit here and make the case for faith because I honestly don't have the time at this point in the day: perhaps later would be better. I just have one final point to make for everyone else in this thread: Just because Cursed is well versed in the English language and can write it extremely well, it doesn't mean he is always right. Take the time to think honestly about what he is proposing.

Faith exists, and again I'll take time later to explain why it exists, however right now I'm late for an interview.

P.S. - I'm looking forward to continuing the long debates we've once had Cursed, however I do have one question: What in the world happened to Marked?
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WicKeD ASSaSiN
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#16
10-13-2008
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He never replied to my argument on the first page.

And as for Marked Achilles, he died or is swamped with work or something.


Cursed Lemon
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#17
10-13-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
Its been awhile, so let me ease myself in very nonchalantly.

"My issue with faith is certainly of the latter, that people of faith just flat out don't *think*." - Let's look objectively at that statement. I can provide hundreds if not thousands of examples of men (and women) in academia who have contributed in mass amounts to both the fields of science and mathematics. That sounds like it would be a massive contradiction to me. You can't make a generalization about faith when far more established individuals than yourself claim to have it.
There are intelligent theists all the time - most likely, they've simply never given their faith the vigorous run-through that they give other things.

Quote:
It's quite ironic actually, that a many of the most successful mathematicians ever to live had faith. Mathematics, which is the most objective subject in terms of material has patrons advocating faith and the subjective. When you consider the amount of Sir Issac Newton's works of mathematics relative to his work on theology, the "subjective" faith and theology almost supercede his mathematical and scientific works 2:1. How is it possible that a man of such brilliance is susceptible to such "ignorance."
Up until the second half of the 20th century, math never conflicted with faith. Science as a whole didn't, except for things that were completely made up by the Catholic church (or misconstrued from Aristotle) that were irrelevant to the concept regardless. such as geocentrism.

Quote:
I'm not going to sit here and make the case for faith because I honestly don't have the time at this point in the day: perhaps later would be better. I just have one final point to make for everyone else in this thread: Just because Cursed is well versed in the English language and can write it extremely well, it doesn't mean he is always right. Take the time to think honestly about what he is proposing.
I could turn that back around and simply state that just because Isaac Newton was proficient in mathematics, doesn't mean he was correct about theology.

Quote:
Faith exists, and again I'll take time later to explain why it exists, however right now I'm late for an interview.
Well of course it exists.

Quote:
P.S. - I'm looking forward to continuing the long debates we've once had Cursed, however I do have one question: What in the world happened to Marked?
I wish I knew. This section has become quite hollow lately. 8( You, Vrbas, Froggy, Cleetus, Darth Hulk, Contra, Marked, Lammie, Midas, Rebal, Colostomizer, FalseReality, DarkZombie, Chtulu, NthErik, etc. are mostly gone. The only ones who stuck around were me, Butthair, General AI, NiceGuy...


Elmo <3

Last edited by Cursed Lemon; 10-13-2008 at 10:36 AM.
Apollion
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#18
10-13-2008
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Damn cursed....I am quite impressed with your post. Count on a hopefully extensive reply to match it in quantity/quality later.....I wanna reply to it now, but I would be a very irresponsible student if I did so, as I have a couple of tests that need studying for . Just wanted to compliment you (and Bishop for his) on your post....I am very much looking forward to a good-and hopefully clean-debate.
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today Is Christians
who acknowledge Jesus with their lips
Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.
That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
DC Talk, "What If I Stumble"

tom31deecc FTW
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#19
10-13-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
Its been awhile, so let me ease myself in very nonchalantly.

"My issue with faith is certainly of the latter, that people of faith just flat out don't *think*." - Let's look objectively at that statement. I can provide hundreds if not thousands of examples of men (and women) in academia who have contributed in mass amounts to both the fields of science and mathematics. That sounds like it would be a massive contradiction to me. You can't make a generalization about faith when far more established individuals than yourself claim to have it.

It's quite ironic actually, that a many of the most successful mathematicians ever to live had faith. Mathematics, which is the most objective subject in terms of material has patrons advocating faith and the subjective. When you consider the amount of Sir Issac Newton's works of mathematics relative to his work on theology, the "subjective" faith and theology almost supercede his mathematical and scientific works 2:1. How is it possible that a man of such brilliance is susceptible to such "ignorance."

I'm not going to sit here and make the case for faith because I honestly don't have the time at this point in the day: perhaps later would be better. I just have one final point to make for everyone else in this thread: Just because Cursed is well versed in the English language and can write it extremely well, it doesn't mean he is always right. Take the time to think honestly about what he is proposing.

Faith exists, and again I'll take time later to explain why it exists, however right now I'm late for an interview.

P.S. - I'm looking forward to continuing the long debates we've once had Cursed, however I do have one question: What in the world happened to Marked?

People like Isaac Newton had no knowledge of Evolution or the Big Bang theory. God was actually acceptable science back then. If you brought up the watchmaker argument back in the 17th century, I'd have no response.
It probably never even crossed his mind that God wasn't real, and if it did, he'd dare not mention it.

EDIT: I don't think I emphasized this enough. The theory of Evolution, and The Big Bang theory actually give an extremely accurate model of how we came to exist WITHOUT divine intervention. These, IMO, are the biggest catalysts of me being an atheist. I didn't think to myself one day, "Hmmmm, faith is actually irrational". I just noticed that science seemed to contradict the whole God thing. It's then when you start to realize how far-fetched the Bible is. From that you start to build up more and more reasons for your lack of faith in God. I stopped believing in God around the same time I stopped believing in Santa; no lie.

Most great contemporary scientists have no such faith (there are exceptions).

Last edited by tom31deecc FTW; 10-13-2008 at 04:41 PM.
 

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