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Bodozer
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#11
01-08-2008
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you know the site is fake..... right?



BiShoP
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#12
01-09-2008
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Originally Posted by E Nomini Patri View Post
Have you read and considered the Quran before adopting Christianity? The Tanach? The Book of Mormon? The Baghavad Gita (sp???)? Any of the other supposedly divinely inspired texts?

I am just curious, there are other books that claim to be the divinely inspired word of God. I want to know what makes them wrong and the Bible right.
I've read the Koran and other "divinely inspired literature", and I can honestly tell you that they are beautiful pieces of literature. The true standard for me, however, is that Christianity and the processes by which the text has been transmitted to what we see nowadays is hardly in question because of the process. Furthermore, can you imagine a text with 40 independent writers composing of 66 various books written over a time period of 2500 years that could possibly mesh together without any serious discrepancies.

The Koran was written around 650 A.D, not by Muhammad, but by those who heard from those who heard of the story of Muhammad, which furthermore was only written by a single person. Therefore, the actual text itself is highly in question because the transmission of knowledge most likely was subject to change. Therefore, we have no actual way of telling whether or not the text we see is truth or legend.

The Book of Mormon was originally written in the early 1800's by Joe Smith who stated "that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461). Fairly ironic since between the 1830 edition and the 1981 edition there were over 4,000 changes to the text, which is insanity when you consider the length of the text itself. Most of these changes are significant ones too, for example: "...king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings;..." which was changed to "...king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings;..." Nevertheless, it's an interesting piece of literature.

The Tanach is the Hebrew Bible, essentially the Old Testament of the Bible. I firmly consider this to be divine, since I believe the accuracies of the Bible itself. The one difference is that the Hebrew Bible had a point regarding the Christ that the Jewish people overlooked because of the state of affairs they were in at the time of his coming. They believed Christ was going to come as a conquering hero and remove the Roman Empire from Jerusalem and the rest of Israel, yet they misinterpreted the scriptures, which states that "there was nothing appealing in him that we should be drawn to him."

I'm pretty sure you mean Bhagavad Gita, however I am not too familiar with this text. It would definitely be a good read though.

Just for your information, I'm not at all scared of reading any other religious texts that might "compromise" my faith. Essentially, I feel as though that if my faith is secure enough, I won't necessarily be lulled by those text to believe my faith is irrelevant. From every piece of evidence I've seen regarding Biblical textual transmission, it has been preserved almost flawlessly and has more scholars and translators currently working on it than any other religious text in the world. It's not just the historical accuracy of the text that draws me to it though: When I read the Bible, I have a sense of wonder and amazement like never before, and I've never gotten that feeling when reading any other religious text. It's as though someone is looking right through me to the central core of who I am, so perhaps this is why I firmly believe in the Bible and no other "divinely inspired" religious text.
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#13
01-09-2008
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Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
First and foremost, you really have no reason to be up in arms about Christianity if you haven't even read that which you are arguing for. I would really recommend reading the Bible before arguing for a viewpoint criticizing the text written by someone who probably hasn't even read the Bible himself.

Wow, the quality of due diligence is really faltering, wouldn't you agree Marked?
I am argueing nothing in any of my posts. I am stating my opinion/stance on religion any giving a basic reasoning as to why. Also, i don't see how im "up in arms aboiut Christianity" either.
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#14
01-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uF_xPROPANEx View Post
I love the person who first wrote that
i dont understand the homosexual part in Christianity.
They wont except them in their churches because they like the same sex?
Who gives a sh*t if they lik men. As long as they arent tryin to get with me i dnt have a problem
According to the Bible, sex was designed for a married man and woman couple to reproduce.

You can't reproduce without the vagina, so therefore it is against God's creation.


Once again, that's according to the Bible, not what I necessarily think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
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#15
01-09-2008
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Originally Posted by RedShift View Post
I am argueing nothing in any of my posts. I am stating my opinion/stance on religion any giving a basic reasoning as to why. Also, i don't see how im "up in arms aboiut Christianity" either.
My Bad

Anyway, your second post in this thread says that if you find out that Christ truly does exist, you will kneel before him and apologize and ask forgiveness. You do realize though that at this point it would be too late to make amends for your disbelief. When you are before God, he will call into account your life ou lived here in earth. I'm not saying this to be a pompous prick, it's literally written word for word in the Bible, which it why it's essential to make the decision here and now on this earth.
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#16
01-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
The Koran was written around 650 A.D, not by Muhammad, but by those who heard from those who heard of the story of Muhammad, which furthermore was only written by a single person. Therefore, the actual text itself is highly in question because the transmission of knowledge most likely was subject to change. Therefore, we have no actual way of telling whether or not the text we see is truth or legend.
No...

The Koran (by which I mean the master copy) itself was made into a book from a pool of other written information (parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks) about the Prophet and the messages he sent. Only a small percentage was taken from people who knew the Prophet very well (his companions and such). In fact it was ordered to be written shortly after his death.
And whatever criticism there is of the Koran, it's never regarding whether or not its text has been changed/altered because of the ridiculous emphasis there was that it be done properly.

Also, whether or not you believe in a faith should depend on you agreeing with its messages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGuff
...you're a terrorist sympathizer. I'd rather be an idiot if that's the choice. At least I'd be a person, though stupid, who is at least on the right side of morality. God doesn't care if you're stupid or not, he does care if you are evil or not.

Last edited by General AI; 01-09-2008 at 05:20 PM.
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#17
01-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
The Koran was written around 650 A.D, not by Muhammad, but by those who heard from those who heard of the story of Muhammad, which furthermore was only written by a single person. Therefore, the actual text itself is highly in question because the transmission of knowledge most likely was subject to change. Therefore, we have no actual way of telling whether or not the text we see is truth or legend.
The Qur'an was being inscribed while Muhammad(PBUH) was alive and there were several people, not just one, who memorized the Qur'an by heart and wrote down several copies/segments. Then they compared them, noted any discrepancies and made a "master copy", if you will. There were hundreds of other muslims who memorized it, some of whom contributed, as well. The fact remains that there is only one version of the Qur'an. I believe the Bible is the word of God but it has been subjected to human change.

--General's description sounds more accurate. Mine is going off of memory of a book I read a few months ago.



Last edited by WicKeD ASSaSiN; 01-09-2008 at 05:31 PM.
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#18
01-09-2008
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Wow, you guys definitely were on the same page about that one. Perhaps my information was incorrect, however I meant to imply that there are a series of distinct contradictions found within the text that furthermore sway me from believing. Here's a sampling. By the way, if anyone can explain to me how these contradictions are relative and the text is contextually sound, please do so!

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).

"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).

"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

"Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116

The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).

"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).

When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?

"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).

Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Is wine consumption good or bad?

"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).

"(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).

"Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
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#19
01-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMblaneH8NATION View Post
According to the Bible, sex was designed for a married man and woman couple to reproduce.

You can't reproduce without the vagina, so therefore it is against God's creation.


Once again, that's according to the Bible, not what I necessarily think.
but y would god let people be gay?
because hes non existant
people are weirded out because a man doesnt like a women like every other or most men do. thats y i think religions are just something to hope for and run to when all goes wrong and to keep a positive state of mind so u dont go to "hell"

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#20
01-09-2008
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OMG! I am so tired of all these atheist threads.



When an opportunity in a fight presents itself, "I" don't hit, "it" hits all by itself.

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