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davobrosia
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#1
01-04-2014
Default Workout/Bodybuilding III: Revengeance



This thread is where we'll talk about that.

There are way too many sites and way way too many opinions and theories about how to get the best results, so most of this may indeed be completely worthless to any given person based on body type, age, training frequency, and so on. Use Google if you're curious, and take everything with the smallest grain of salt you can find.

This thread will mostly be a supprepository of ideas, questions, advice, and personal experiences.

Keep in mind the most important summary of bodybuilding, brought to you by Arnold:

Quote:
The greatest feeling you can get in a gym or the most satisfying feeling you can get in the gym is the pump. Let's say you train your biceps, blood is rushing in to your muscles and that's what we call the pump. Your muscles get a really tight feeling like your skin is going to explode any minute and its really tight and its like someone is blowing air into your muscle and it just blows up and it feels different, it feels fantastic. It's as satisfying to me as cumming is, you know, as in having sex with a woman and cumming. So can you believe how much I am in heaven? I am like getting the feeling of cumming in the gym; I'm getting the feeling of cumming at home; I'm getting the feeling of cumming backstage; when I pump up, when I pose out in front of 5000 people I get the same feeling, so I am cumming day and night. It's terrific, right? So you know, I am in heaven.

Do whatever. Experiment with your body, because everyone is different, and people are going to respond differently to different types of training. There is no ideal method. It doesn't exist.

HERE ARE SOME THINGS OF NOTE
  • Don’t go off about some kind of “beginners shouldn’t isolate” or “machines HEH” bullshit in this thread, because that’s what it is.
  • Measure your arms, GTFO the scale
  • Pics every day (it's only gay if your pubes show)
  • If you get tired of eating, maybe you should get tired of living
  • squats aren't even real it's just belly fat bouncing off of thigh fat and tendons getting tight
  • Pick 2 of the following:
    1. Girls
    2. Games
    3. Gains

Again, everybody's body's different. Some routines and exercises will work better for some and not so much for others. So even though there's a million different programs and philosophies, there's no such thing as a "best" routine to follow. The longer you lift, the better you'll be at dialing in what best meets your needs and works for your own body.

How the fuck do I become ludicrously huge?

For fuck's sake, do not give in to the urge to switch your routine biweekly or do a stupid amount of different exercises. You'll get your best results when you settle on a handful of exercises that work (good staples are squats, deadlifts, bench presses, some sort of overhead presses, and some sort of row) and focus on getting better at those lifts specifically. Sticking to one routine for a long time also makes it easier to mentally keep track of your progress, but you really should be writing everything down anyway.

Once you get some time under the bar under your belt, maybe add some isolation lifts. Curls, triceps pushdowns, leg curls, whatever. It doesn't really matter as long as it's not the focus of your workouts. If you want to spend 2 hours a day using 20 different machines, hitting every muscle in a group multiple times, never touching a barbell, probably don't bother reading the rest of this post. But getting a pump after the real work is done is fine.

How many exercises/reps/sets do I need to do to attain REAL ULTIMATE MASS?

Depends on your body and how much experience you have. The longer you’ve been lifting, the slower the gains will come. There are a million different ways to train the body for mass. Some routines call for 5 reps, others 10-20.

This chart tracks the best volume/% of your maximum



Generally, though, as long as you go into the gym and add weight to the bar or an extra rep on a regular basis, you'll get stronger, and you'll get bigger.

For top lels, here's a brosplit shamelessly lifted from a forums poster on SA, and it would probably be fine to do if you want to ignore everything else in this post and don't want to do the standard Starting Strength/5x5 variant I'm about to recommend.
Quote:
This routine is a typical 4 day bodybuilding split, it contains days where certain parts of the body are isolated to maximize hypertrophy and increase size. Splits come in a variety of formats, 3 day splits, 4 day splits, 6 day splits. The amount of time you spend in the gym (working hard not ogling ass) does directly correlate to the strength and size you will be able to create. The other split I will be showing in the thread is an upper and lower split, where as much time is focused on the lower body as the upper body, this is great for people who feel like their legs lag behind their upper body or are maybe just OCD about keeping everything equal.
Code:
 MONDAY - Legs
4 sets leg extension 10-15reps (keep it light, this is just to get blood in the legs)
4 sets squat 6-10 reps
3 sets leg press 10-12 reps
4 sets leg curl 10-12 reps
3 sets stiff legged deadlift or walking lunges (hamstring or quad, pick one and alternate every so often or whichever you think needs more work)

TUESDAY - Chest
4 sets incline DB or barbell bench 8-12 reps
3 sets flat DB or barbell bench 8-12 reps
3 sets DB fly or machine fly (pec deck) 12-15 reps, focus on squeezing at the top
2 sets weighted dips

WED OFF

THURSDAY - back
4 sets bodyweight pullups: up to 15 reps (add weight if 4x15 is too easy) 
4 sets bent over row barbell or DB row 8-12 reps
3 sets front pulldown, wide or narrow (switch it up) 8-10 reps
3 sets cable row 6-10 reps
Behind the head pulldowns(yeah they're bad blah blah blah): 2 sets 15 reps Medium easy weight...just squeeze.

FRIDAY - shoulders/arms
3 sets DB press or front military 8-10 reps
3 sets side laterals 10-12 reps
3 sets rear lateral machine or DB 10-12 reps
6 sets shrugs behind the back for 3 sets and to the front for 3

Triceps
3 sets 10-15 rope pushdown
3 sets skullcrushers or DB extensions 6-10 reps
3 sets reversed push down (palms facing) 8-10 reps

Biceps
3 sets barbell curl or e-z curl bar 8-12 reps
3 sets preacher machine or db/barbell 8-12 reps
2 sets hammer curl db or rope 10-15 reps
wrist curls 13-20 reps 2 sets

-Do abs on Monday and Thursday

-Do calves Tuesday and Friday.

-KEEP THE REST INTERVALS SHORT. 30-60 seconds between sets, no more. This is very important as it will fatigue the hell out of your muscles AND improve your conditioning.

-Alternate squats with deadlifts every week or two weeks if you want.

-Do your cardio normally and adjust depending on whether you're bulking or cutting.

-If you want to do this in a 3 day split, you can go chest/back, legs, shoulders/arms.

General Strength Training
Maybe you aspire to be a powerlifter or strongman, or maybe you just enjoy Squatting, Benching, and Deadlifting (who doesn't?). This portion of the OP will be applicable to people who have trained for 1 to 3-5 years and who aren't ready to move on to monthly progression programs like Jim Wendler's 5/3/1.

People who want to be strong want to look strong too, so movements like dips, chins/pull-ups and yes, ~curlz~ all have benefits and places in a strength-focused lifter's programming (you try deadlifting 500lbs without strong biceps).

A few notes:

Get your form down. See the links at the end of the post for more on this. If you're just starting out take videos and post them.

Eat. Don't be one of those dipshits who tries to do Starting Strength while eating 1200 calories a day. While this may work for a while, it will start to suck, hard. Many of us have made the mistake of trying to diet heavily on a linear progression and started failing squats left and right at embarrassing weights. On that note: carbs are important! Do not stop eating carbs! You can reduce them, and whether you want to eat nothing but sweet potatoes and lentils or eat nothing but candy is between you and your god but don't expect to make progress quickly eating like a yoga instructor.

Don't jump from SS to 5/3/1 This is a dumb idea that you shouldn't do because you can still make great progress on an intermediate program.

Programs

Beginner
If your lifts aren't somewhere between Novice and Intermediate on the EXRX Strength Standards I suggest you do one of these first. A good linear progression will work wonders.
Starting Strength
Greyskull Lifting Program
Stronglifts 5×5
Jason Blaha's Novice 5x5

Stripped 5x5

Intermediate
Madcow Intermediate 5×5 calculator & Explanation

Texas Method
The Texas Method is the successor to Starting Strength. Mark Rippetoe would wants everyone to think he finessed/perfected it but he more or less screwed it up. It truly originated with Olympic Weightlifting Coach and generally cool as shit dude Glenn Pendlay, and then the cool dude Justin Lascek of 70s Big expanded on it greatly in two excellent books. It's a relatively simple program that looks like this.

Notation is 'reps×sets' or 'weight×reps×sets'.

Monday - Volume Day 75-78% of 1RM or 85% of 5RM
Squat 5×5
Bench or Press 5×5

Wednesday - Recovery Day ~65-68% of 1RM or ~75% of 5RM
Squat 5×3
Bench or Press 5×3

Friday - Intensity Day >90% of 5RM
Squat 5RM
Bench or Press 5RM
Deadlift 3-5RM

On Volume Day you do enough work to drive progress and improve your 5RM on Intensity Day. Recovery Day helps keep the groove on squat and give you more volume while allowing your joints to rest. If you Bench Monday you Press Wednesday and then Bench again Friday, and next week alternate.

Advancing on TM

Since you aren't a newbie anymore, you can't just throw 5 or 10lbs on the bar every workout and expect it work for long (or at all), so you're periodizing over a week now. Every Intensity Day you try to add at least 5lbs to your 5RM. With Squats you may be able to add 7.5 or 10, but just do 5 for at least a few weeks before really pushing it. You may not be able to make 5lb improvements on your Press so you may have to drop to 2.5lbs per week. If your gym doesn't have 1.25lb plates you can always improvise.

Do not just throw on 5lbs a week on Volume Day! You will end up dead. If you have fractional plates you can add either 1.25 or 2.5lbs a week, or you can increase Volume Day every other week, or just when you feel like it's no longer enough weight to drive progress on Fridays.

What about Deadlifts?!
Once you're deadlifting enough, squat and deadlift volume will start to hamper progress, so TM only calls for deadlifts once a week. If you really want to focus on your deadlift, you can add another workout on Tuesday. Some people find it works very well to do deadlift speed work on Tuesdays.

Speed work is, for example, doing either 10-12 singles or 6-8 doubles at about 55-75% of your Deadlift max (start very light) and pulling as explosively as possible, with very short rest periods. So maybe pull 12 singles @ 60% of every minute. As you get stronger you can decrease the rest periods, add weight, or whatever. You'll figure it out.

Assistance Day
Throw some chins, curls, whatever, on Recovery Day. You can also just sprinkle them throughout without much issue, just don't get stupid with it. Adding too much assistance work will really hinder progress. Don't just throw in 35 different exercises and hope it works.

But what if I want to be strong and big too?

Well, 5 reps will put mass on you, despite what the bodybuilding world tells you. Texas Method is very flexible, though, so you can tailor the program to build mass by, e.g., doing Squat/Bench 3x10 and one top set of 8 or 10 on Friday, or adding some back-off sets. Probably should ease into this and start with 5s if you're just coming off of a 3x5 or 5x5 program, though.

The Texas Method will get you strong as all get-out and is a great program. You should be fully recovered by Monday and never feel that worn down unless you do something really dumb. It's carried many lifters to elite levels and will do it 4 times faster than 5/3/1.



Equipment
Where to get shit:
http://www.elitefts.com
http://www.southcarolinabarbell.com
http://www.roguefitness.com
http://www.jackalsgym.com
http://www.eleikosport.se/USA
http://www.inzernet.com/

Belts
Contrary to popular belief, belts don't seem to actually prevent injuries, but they do allow you to move more weight. Typically, a powerlifting belt is leather, 10mm thick, 4" wide (untapered), with a single prong buckle. However, there are double prong buckles, lever buckles, velcro, etc. Also available are thicker 13mm belts, but these don't seem to provide much more benefit and only take a lot longer to break in. There are other specialty belts made from nylon as well. A good belt is generally ~$100, and it will last your whole training life.

Shoes
The prefered shoe for all around powerlifting is the Converse Chuck Taylor, but any flat, thin soled shoe will do. Some people prefer Vans Authentics. Cushioned shoes are not advisable for the squat, as the cushioning will cause your feet to move around, which will snap your shit up. Most lifters go with Chucks or an olymic weightlifting shoe with a raised heel. For deadlifting, you'll want the least amount of material between your feet and the ground, since it would only serve to increase the range of motion of the lift--some people just go barefoot (in socks, you heathens).

Chalk
Chalk helps your grip in the deadlift, and can also be used for the bench press and squat if you prefer. If your gym doesn't allow chalk, get an eco-ball or liquid chalk, which leave less mess. Or instead just find a real gym to go to.

Ladies: follow the same advice given to men. You won't get "bulky" unless you really, really try to. Here's a good woman-oriented site: http://www.stumptuous.com/
An especially good read: http://www.stumptuous.com/lies-in-the-gym

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION



Exercise Form
ExRx - Brief descriptions of all common lifts.
Starting Strength Wiki - Squat, Bench Press, Overhead Press, Power Clean, Deadlift.
Goblet Squats 101 - A simple, effective, nearly impossible to mess up squat.
Lat Pulldowns/Cable Rows - Two commonly screwed up back exercises. Read these guides so you don't look like a stupid asshole with a shitty back.
Calf Raises - How to focus on the muscles, not tendon assistance.
So You Think You Can Bench/Squat
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...-the-pecs.html
Paul Carter: Developing the Raw Bench Part 1
Paul Carter: Developing the Raw Bench Part 2
Paul Carter: Developing the Raw Bench Part 3 (Good for tall people)

Warming Up/Flexibility/Mobility
Warming Up For The Weight Room - How to prep yourself for weightlifting.
Foam Rolling - How to give yourself a ghetto sports massage at home.
Super Squat Hip Sequence - A great stretching routine if your hips feel tight.
Joe DeFranco's Agile 8 Lower Body Warmup - A combination of foam rolling, dynamic stretching, and static stretching for your legs and hips.
Joe DeFranco's Upper Body Warm-Up - An upper body Agile 8, basically.
DieselCrew Two Minute Shoulder Warm-Up - A quick routine that will help keep your shoulders happy.
The Third World Squat - A way to address inflexibility if you have trouble squatting (see also: Goblet Squats 101 above).

Random Diet Stuff
http://examine.com/ "We are an independent organization that presents un-biased research on supplements and nutrition. We currently have over 25000 references to scientific papers."
The Truth About Alcohol, Fat Loss, and Muscle Growth - Plus a guide on how to minimize the damage when you go out drinking.
Nutritionix - A site with calorie/macronutrient figures for many fast food and chain restaurants. Plan your trip in advance.
The Dirt On Clean Eating - Why "eating clean" is kind of a stupid term.
Rigid Vs. Flexible Dieting - How being incredibly strict with your diet can backfire.

Popular Post-Beginner Plans
Madcow - A follow up to 5x5 barbell programs, or Starting Strength.
Texas Method - An official follow up to Starting Strength.
Reverse Pyramid Training - A max-effort approach for barbell strength programs once you are super comfortable with form.
Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulk - An intermediate muscle gain program.

FURTHER READING
http://www.chaosandpain.blogspot.com (nsfw)
Body Recomposition (free, with book plugs everywhere)
Lyle McDonald is a respected/crazy as balls nerd whose works are commonly referenced here, and for good reason. He has articles on dieting, mass gain, exercise form, research reviews, and various other tidbits.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ng-part-1.html

Weightology Weekly
James Krieger reviews loads of diet/fat loss research, and is a great resource for the detail-obsessed goon who cares more about overanalyzing every little thing than they do about actually working hard and eating less.

Alan Aragon's Research Review
Alan Aragon also reviews scientific research, focusing on dieting, fitness, and supplements. He has plenty of excellent free articles floating around the Internet, too.

Leangains (free unless you pay like $1000 for a consultation)
Martin Berkhan focuses primarily on Intermittent Fasting (the art of skipping breakfast) and barbell training. His piece on dieting myths is a particularly good read. Anything he's put out in the past year or two is a particularly terrible read.

Dan John's Blog (free, with books/DVDs for sale)
Dan John is an old-school strength coach who squats a lot, and focuses on the practical matters of fitness. If you're a big fan of the links above, then you're probably going to end up overthinking details that don't matter a ton to someone at your level (i.e. not a professional athlete). Dan John will remind you that focusing on your goals, lifting heavier, lifting more reps, and remembering to get enough sleep and drink enough water are more important than spending hours analyzing macronutrient splits and advanced periodization charts and the ideal pre-workout window in which to inject citrulline malate into your balls or whatever.


A final reality check for you before you post: you get bigger by eating more, you get abs by eating less.

I leave you with this:
Quote:
Let me explain this more simply. Do you remember Aladdin? He was always running, climbing, and escaping from the guards. Notice his thin build. His rest was poor: He would catch a few hours of sleep on a cot in a broken shack. He also followed a diet plan that consisted of giving his food away to orphans. This significantly hurt his recovery.

On the other hand, Beaty and the Beast villain Gaston followed the 4-dozen-eggs-per-day plan, supplemented by shooting barrels of ale and drinking the contents. He would lift benches covered with people on alternating days and spend his recovery periods scheming with his friends. He enjoyed his life and also experienced much better recovery and gains.

There is no quick-fix. You can't skip recovery and get fit twice as fast. This is a marathon, not a sprint. The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength (but there are downsides to this approach, as well). If you just take this as a lifestyle instead of a magic button, you'll find that you are able to workout three or four times per week, for the years that getting fit will take. You will enjoy it that much more, and you will develop lasting improvements to your body. Your mental health will improve, and you will know that you've worked hard for a long-term increase to your quality of life.
Spoiler!

Last edited by davobrosia; 01-05-2014 at 08:38 AM.
myzo
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#2
01-04-2014
Default Workout/Bodybuilding III: Revengeance

good shit. mandatory, I'm weak as fuck.

Texas method is pretty cool.


edit: volume day was today, two days after intensity day. I'm sore. probably going to take some nudie progress picks, and photoshop our savior rippletits face over my genitalia for posterity.



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Last edited by myzo; 01-04-2014 at 01:39 PM.
davobrosia
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#3
01-04-2014
Default

Can we edit the stylesheet to take the fucking gradients out of the quote boxes?
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myzo
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#4
01-04-2014
Default Workout/Bodybuilding III: Revengeance

we wanna make some google spread sheet for us regs to keep updated with current info? would be cool to see bodyweight height lifts training experience. or not.


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Last edited by myzo; 01-04-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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#5
01-04-2014
Default

Google sheets/docs is probably your best available option. Good info.

Rough Draft.

Official Procrastinator of THF, 2011 - Present

Always and Forever.
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#6
01-04-2014
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No large section on curls, and equipment section has nothing on the best butt plugs to use for squats?

Davo I am disappoint.
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#7
01-04-2014
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This is why I wanted a living document.
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#8
01-04-2014
Default

Well this looks like effort Davo! Id +rep If I could. All I can say is ''I hope you Enjoy the stay in this thread, boys!''

and that sport is the best and one of the most important things in my life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davobrosia View Post



Last edited by Kiko Mia; 01-04-2014 at 03:45 PM.
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#9
01-04-2014
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Great thread, davo. Thanks for putting it all together.

"im pretty sure when i said, was because its the same word. not a different word. then the meaning's of the word... but okay"
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#10
01-04-2014
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word, man... great first post to this thread
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