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Froggy618157725
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#31
03-16-2007
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Originally Posted by Darth Hulk View Post
The mind is nothing more than a concept, you cannot physically touch the mind, put it in a jar, or transfer it from one person to another. It is our way of understanding what it is that causes us to appear as rational, autonomous beings. To say something exists you should be able to define it. What you said about it wasn't a definition. I don't particularly agree that the mind is a
an actual thing, nor does anything necessarily suggest that it must. The brain is far more complex than anyone gives it credit for. If we weren't rational beings, no one would say we have minds. There is nothing about the brain that suggests it can't sustain rational thought without this thing people call the mind.
O rly? It'll be really interesting when we get those brain enhancement chips that'll be developed assuming we don't blow ourselves up or something equally self destructive, or just destructive. There are some people working on memory implants for rats. If they manage to get that working, I wonder if memory data would be transferable...
Quote:
While I can't quite refute the fact that we live in a complex universe that seems to suggest that it was made somewhat purposefully, I do remain quite skeptical. I've never seen anyone dispute that Jesus exists, so I don't know exactly why the existence of a man claiming to be the son of God is cause for jumping on board with a whole religion. That makes absolutely no sense.
Yeah. Even if you were to know that G_d exists, that still wouldn't justify any given religion.
Quote:
Also, how exactly do we know that the universe stops at some point? Do you know how long it would take just to get out of our solar system? No one knows if the universe stops. You can't know unless you actually see the spot where it stops. Besides that, you only have a notion that it stops somewhere.


TMNT
Plus, depending on the geometry of the universe, it could very well be finite, but never ending. And then there's always expanding space to consider. When space expands faster than light, you don't get any information from those regions...
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

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#32
03-16-2007
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Originally Posted by Darth Hulk View Post
Well, that is in fact circular reasoning, so I hope that's not what Christians use to justify anything.
That's pretty much all they've got, isn't it?
Spoiler!
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#33
03-16-2007
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Awwww yeeeeeeeeh, son. I got a shoutout.


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#34
03-16-2007
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All i have to say is"the work of one hand does more than the prayers of millions"
Science ftw
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#35
03-17-2007
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Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
I am convinced that being a Christian is far harder and, generally speaking, more challenging of a lifestyle than that of an atheist. Why is that? Simply because everything is completely spoon fed to you, regarding what you believe and how you believe it, it doesn't mean that we are less intelligent in our reasoning of a creator.

Why do I believe in a Creator?

Here's why: Look around you at the complexity of life. Look above you at the formations the clouds make. It's beautiful. Look at the characteristics of the forces that govern life. Each is dependent upon another, just as certain parts of an engine must be tuned to function properly. Simply stated, everything had to have been placed in the position it is in because it is fine tuned by a fine tuner. I am convinced more so after taking multiple science classes in college that a creator does exist, because yet have I found reason enough to prove that one does not exist.

The evidence is enough to stand condemned, yet not enough to stand convinced of everything. Theres not enough evidence to decide the issue one way or the other. This is the reason why I don't criticize someone for believing what they believe, but all I ask is that they support what they believe.

While the theory of evolution seems like a relatively sound doctrine of faith for evolutionists, there are a variety of flaws in it. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Ontogeny recapitulated Phylogeny?" That "scientific fact" is actually misguided idealism at its best. Ernst Haekel < if that's how you spell it, documented, through drawings, the uncanny characteristics that organisms have with their ancient ancestors. Actually, he was totally wrong! The fact of the matter is that most schools still teach that "fact of evolution" when it's not even true at all.

You stated that Christianity offers nothing but blind faith in a book written thousands of years ago. If you assess that Christianity is based around blind faith, then you are blind. I'd rather not get into the logistics of proving the divinity of the Bible and its authority, because honestly, it would fly right in the face of what you were taught to believe, and you would most likely start flamming me for being an "ignorant f**k." The truth of the matter is that the only people that could possibly "brawl" in a debate with me is MarkedAchilles, Cursed Lemon, and The Colostomizer. They can testify to the fact that most debates started and continued between us generally end at a standstill, which is far more than you could hope for.
I was born and raised a Christian. So much for your "what you were spoon fed" and "what you were taught to believe" ideals.

See, my problems with Christianity came about when I learned to read and comprehend. As soon as I was able to understand the passages of the Bible and analyze the whole picture did I realise that Christianity is a religion full of hypocrisy. A "perfect God" who time and time again contradicts himself. Offering that he is a loving and caring God in one verse then talks of smiting people in the next. Convincing people to love and to hate all in one page. Teaching acceptance and then ignorance in the very same breath.

I'm not close-minded at all. I question my beliefs every day I wake. The thing is that what I believe now is infinitely less flawed than what I believed before.

Are you ready to question your beliefs?
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if it was Steve Jobs then you would probably have to pay HIM a buck to watch the ad.
It would also only be available in encrypted QT format, playable only on any Mac or iPhone.
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#36
03-17-2007
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Originally Posted by Enervate You View Post
I was born and raised a Christian. So much for your "what you were spoon fed" and "what you were taught to believe" ideals.

See, my problems with Christianity came about when I learned to read and comprehend. As soon as I was able to understand the passages of the Bible and analyze the whole picture did I realise that Christianity is a religion full of hypocrisy. A "perfect God" who time and time again contradicts himself. Offering that he is a loving and caring God in one verse then talks of smiting people in the next. Convincing people to love and to hate all in one page. Teaching acceptance and then ignorance in the very same breath.

I'm not close-minded at all. I question my beliefs every day I wake. The thing is that what I believe now is infinitely less flawed than what I believed before.

Are you ready to question your beliefs?
Then I would have to say your interpretation of God was wrong!?! I'm sorry if I criticize you for it, but you have to realize that God is a God of grace, while at the same time a God of mercy. God is a God of love, while at the same time a God of hate. Don't ask me to explain it because it cannot be explained in terms of human wisdom. I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the answers, and that I'm not perfect. So does that mean I say to myself "If it's not right in front of me, then it must not be true!" By no means.

Philosophically, this as known as an epistemic position. For example, when you go into an office, and someone tells you there is a snake in there, do you open the door and look around initially to find there is no snake, thereby denying the fact that there could be the snake under other furniture in the office. When you made the initial assessment, you did not have an strong epistemic position. Perhaps this was the problem of yours, and why you walked away from Christianity, because you made an assessment regarding the nature of God, yet didn't bother to go through the efforts of understanding why.

I've seen this all the time in a variety of different people. If God does not reveal himself to you, then he must not be there to begin with. That is philosophically not wise to do, because it would put us in a bad epistemic position. Therefore, before you criticize Christianity and the naturalistic paradoxes you see within the text and the nature of God, please question yourself as to why might there be differences in the text.
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#37
03-17-2007
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Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
Then I would have to say your interpretation of God was wrong!?! I'm sorry if I criticize you for it, but you have to realize that God is a God of grace, while at the same time a God of mercy. God is a God of love, while at the same time a God of hate. Don't ask me to explain it because it cannot be explained in terms of human wisdom. I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the answers, and that I'm not perfect. So does that mean I say to myself "If it's not right in front of me, then it must not be true!" By no means.

Philosophically, this as known as an epistemic position. For example, when you go into an office, and someone tells you there is a snake in there, do you open the door and look around initially to find there is no snake, thereby denying the fact that there could be the snake under other furniture in the office. When you made the initial assessment, you did not have an strong epistemic position. Perhaps this was the problem of yours, and why you walked away from Christianity, because you made an assessment regarding the nature of God, yet didn't bother to go through the efforts of understanding why.

I've seen this all the time in a variety of different people. If God does not reveal himself to you, then he must not be there to begin with. That is philosophically not wise to do, because it would put us in a bad epistemic position. Therefore, before you criticize Christianity and the naturalistic paradoxes you see within the text and the nature of God, please question yourself as to why might there be differences in the text.


I would still like to know why the existence of a man claiming to be the son of God translates into an entire belief system. I seriously doubt he was the first person claiming to be the Messiah and he definitely wasn't the last. Considering the fact that every piece of information we have about him is secondhand at best, how does that translate to a strong enough foundation to where people are modeling their lives based on what they think he would do?


TMNT
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#38
03-17-2007
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Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
I am convinced that being a Christian is far harder and, generally speaking, more challenging of a lifestyle than that of an atheist. Why is that? Simply because everything is completely spoon fed to you, regarding what you believe and how you believe it, it doesn't mean that we are less intelligent in our reasoning of a creator.
Being a Christian is a lot harder than being an atheist. As a Christian, you have to convince yourself of a lie every single day.

Quote:
Why do I believe in a Creator?

Here's why: Look around you at the complexity of life.
Oh boy, here we go...

Quote:
Look above you at the formations the clouds make.
Uh huh. How exactly is that complex? Even an amature meterologist can tell you why clouds form the way they do...

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It's beautiful. Look at the characteristics of the forces that govern life. Each is dependent upon another,
Care to clarify whay you meant?

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just as certain parts of an engine must be tuned to function properly.
Even a poorly tuned engine can function properly...Bad analogy bud.

Quote:
Simply stated, everything had to have been placed in the position it is in because it is fine tuned by a fine tuner.
That's an over-simplification if I ever saw one. If life was so fine tuned, why are there so many genetic flaws in man-kind?

Quote:
I am convinced more so after taking multiple science classes in college that a creator does exist, because yet have I found reason enough to prove that one does not exist.
What science classes did you take? I also don't think you went in with an objective perspective...

Quote:
The evidence is enough to stand condemned, yet not enough to stand convinced of everything. Theres not enough evidence to decide the issue one way or the other. This is the reason why I don't criticize someone for believing what they believe, but all I ask is that they support what they believe.
As the great Carl Sagan once said, 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. Evolution and Natural Selection make bold claims, but they have equally bold evidence to back that 100%. Both are observed, and empiricaly proven. Creationism is just ideology...

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While the theory of evolution seems like a relatively sound doctrine of faith for evolutionists, there are a variety of flaws in it.
You are absolutely incredible. You are completely refuting observed data! Data that has been observed by countless people!

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Have you ever heard of the phrase "Ontogeny recapitulated Phylogeny?"
That doesn't have anything to do with the Evolutionary theory itself dude. You are an absolute expert at the Non Sequitur.

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That "scientific fact" is actually misguided idealism at its best.
Evolution as a whole stands absolutely observed by humans eyes, and proven as a fact, and a working theory. Get over it.

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Ernst Haekel < if that's how you spell it, documented, through drawings, the uncanny characteristics that organisms have with their ancient ancestors. Actually, he was totally wrong! The fact of the matter is that most schools still teach that "fact of evolution" when it's not even true at all.
It was an idea about embryo maturation, NOT EVOLUTION! I can't believe you'd try to put those two things together.

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You stated that Christianity offers nothing but blind faith in a book written thousands of years ago. If you assess that Christianity is based around blind faith, then you are blind.
How is it anything but blind faith? There is no proof what-so-ever that backs it up...

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I'd rather not get into the logistics of proving the divinity of the Bible and its authority, because honestly, it would fly right in the face of what you were taught to believe, and you would most likely start flamming me for being an "ignorant f**k."
If you've got statistics, I'd sure like to hear them.

Quote:
The truth of the matter is that the only people that could possibly "brawl" in a debate with me is MarkedAchilles, Cursed Lemon, and The Colostomizer. They can testify to the fact that most debates started and continued between us generally end at a standstill, which is far more than you could hope for.
I'm hurt that I wasn't included in your list.
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

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. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
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#39
03-17-2007
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Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
Why do I believe in a Creator?

Here's why: Look around you at the complexity of life. Look above you at the formations the clouds make. It's beautiful. Look at the characteristics of the forces that govern life. Each is dependent upon another, just as certain parts of an engine must be tuned to function properly. Simply stated, everything had to have been placed in the position it is in because it is fine tuned by a fine tuner. I am convinced more so after taking multiple science classes in college that a creator does exist, because yet have I found reason enough to prove that one does not exist.
Let me introduce you to the Mandelbrot set. Infinitely complex, self similar, and easily one of the most beautiful things in mathematics. You could spend days looking through it and miss out on countless amazing images within it. Yet all of it comes from something as simple as fc(z)=z^2+C

Beauty and complexity do not require a sentient creator.
Quote:
The evidence is enough to stand condemned, yet not enough to stand convinced of everything. Theres not enough evidence to decide the issue one way or the other. This is the reason why I don't criticize someone for believing what they believe, but all I ask is that they support what they believe.

While the theory of evolution seems like a relatively sound doctrine of faith for evolutionists, there are a variety of flaws in it. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Ontogeny recapitulated Phylogeny?" That "scientific fact" is actually misguided idealism at its best. Ernst Haekel < if that's how you spell it, documented, through drawings, the uncanny characteristics that organisms have with their ancient ancestors. Actually, he was totally wrong! The fact of the matter is that most schools still teach that "fact of evolution" when it's not even true at all.
That was never a scientifically strong thing in it's full form. It might have partial truth to it, but not nearly like his idea. Before something is called scientific fact, it has to have a good deal of science behind it. Evolution is scientific fact. The questions are the sizes of different influences, and how it worked at the earlier points. The genetics behind it is pretty sound.
Quote:
You stated that Christianity offers nothing but blind faith in a book written thousands of years ago. If you assess that Christianity is based around blind faith, then you are blind. I'd rather not get into the logistics of proving the divinity of the Bible and its authority, because honestly, it would fly right in the face of what you were taught to believe, and you would most likely start flamming me for being an "ignorant f**k." The truth of the matter is that the only people that could possibly "brawl" in a debate with me is MarkedAchilles, Cursed Lemon, and The Colostomizer. They can testify to the fact that most debates started and continued between us generally end at a standstill, which is far more than you could hope for.
Well, if you have proof of the divinity in the Bible, put it up to the test. I'd like to see it, if it's any different than what's been said before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiShoP View Post
I've seen this all the time in a variety of different people. If God does not reveal himself to you, then he must not be there to begin with. That is philosophically not wise to do, because it would put us in a bad epistemic position. Therefore, before you criticize Christianity and the naturalistic paradoxes you see within the text and the nature of God, please question yourself as to why might there be differences in the text.
The existence of G_d does not validate Christianity. There are plenty of other religions out there with that same claim. If knowing that G_d exists came with knowing all the answers, it sure would be a lot easier... I for one can be almost 100% sure that there either is a G_d of some form, or I am insane beyond all possibility of return. At least if I'm insane, I'll have an advantage in learning how the brain works...
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

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