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King Bond
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#221
12-18-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the midas touch
Ok. I just read everything up to here and I got a question for the Vrbas/.Ghost side:
If you love somebody, but aren't married to them, is having sex with them dirty? What if I've had a girlfriend for 4 years now and we truly love each other on more than just a physical level.
I understand where you're coming from (I've been there. Not quite 4 years, but 2 ) and I understand Vrbas' point of view. I think what he's saying is if you two were to break up that could have colossal effects on your next important relationship/marriage. If you are a Christian or your belief also says that is wrong. I hope you prayed for forgiveness, though I've never understood that either ...
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#222
12-18-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
I have given multiple reasons to avoid sex before marriage for some time now and each one only seems to be brushed aside by you.
He doesn't really address the question/statement at hand. He avoids it or asks a question to answer a question.
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#223
12-18-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Bond
He doesn't really address the question/statement at hand. He avoids it or asks a question to answer a question.
Wait, i avoid it?
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#224
12-18-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the midas touch
Ok. I just read everything up to here and I got a question for the Vrbas/.Ghost side:
If you love somebody, but aren't married to them, is having sex with them dirty? What if I've had a girlfriend for 4 years now and we truly love each other on more than just a physical level.
Easily debatable subject area. Without a doubt, i can honestly say i've struggled with this. If you truly love someone but aren't married YET, is sex dirty?

Here is the only answer i can give you. What is love? Love is PATIENT. That is only one of the several aspects of love (don't feel like mentioning the rest, doesn't apply here). If you are TRULY in love, you can wait.

If you ask me, i'd say yes, it is dirty. It can be reasonably inferred that the reason i believe it is dirty is because God told me so. But like i said, i've struggled in this area even within my Christian faith. Both marriage and sex are sacred acts between 2 people. Why must people try and seperate them? In all honesty, i do not know the answer to this question, but i personaly believe it is wrong and i will not participate in this act.

And for you Colostomizer. In a recent post you said you were trying to get me to convince you that sex is wrong outside of marriage IN THE ABSENCE of religion. Well, for your information, i have argued on the "practical" side (non religious side) of why sex outside of marriage is wrong since page 12 of this thread. I have given multiple reasons to avoid sex before marriage for some time now and each one only seems to be brushed aside by you.

And King Bond, yes. You pointed out a very good point about the whole breaking up thing. I was going to make that point but i thought it was clear enough to be seen w/o pointing it out directly.
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#225
12-18-2005
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And since page 12, I've been refuting all of your points. You have no good reason. It's just in your head. You've got this preconceived notion that purity is something you need to preserve for you future wife.

You're saying I should wait so that I can say to my wife, "Look honey, I've starved myself of pleasure all my life for you!" You might as well be giving her a diamond the size of a refrigerator. Is that how you look at it? Well, of course it's wonderful to give her a diamond thousands of times bigger than any previously discovered, but is it necessary? Is it wrong not to?

I think it's safe to say that I can summarize your arguments with the statement, "Premarital sex is wrong outside of religion because you should preserve your virginity for your wife." But why is it necessary to preserve my virginity? You haven't told me that the entire time we've been debating.

And what is the "breaking up" thing you're talking about with King Bond?

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 12-18-2005 at 04:12 PM.
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#226
12-18-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Easily debatable subject area. Without a doubt, i can honestly say i've struggled with this. If you truly love someone but aren't married YET, is sex dirty?

Here is the only answer i can give you. What is love? Love is PATIENT. That is only one of the several aspects of love (don't feel like mentioning the rest, doesn't apply here). If you are TRULY in love, you can wait.

If you ask me, i'd say yes, it is dirty. It can be reasonably inferred that the reason i believe it is dirty is because God told me so. But like i said, i've struggled in this area even within my Christian faith. Both marriage and sex are sacred acts between 2 people. Why must people try and seperate them? In all honesty, i do not know the answer to this question, but i personaly believe it is wrong and i will not participate in this act.
Yeah, there are indeed several aspects of love as well as several types of love. If you have a deep, intense, unconditional love for another person then is having sex with them (if you're unmarried) dirty?

Ok. For the sake of argument, we'll say it is. Then a marriage automatically cleanses it of its dirtiness? Marriage is nothing more than a word, a status. I can go to Vegas and some drunk chick and I can see a Father and wed us. Now when me and this drunk chick have rough, dry sex (eww Midas, too immature), is it now clean?

I don't think marriage should be a "line" between "dirty" and "clean" sex. Marriage has been so watered down by Americans that the true meaning of it is lost. Sometimes, marriage is even for financial reasons!
I don't think both people agreeing to having sex makes it "clean" either (a Saigan prostitute would never refuse you sex if you pay her. You both agree).
I think love, which is qualitative, should be the factor. Love for your partner, which is something you must look within yourself for, is huge.

Premarital sex should'nt be an argument (unless we're talking religion).
Pre-Love Sex (I'm not witty enough to think of something that sounds better) is more applicable.



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#227
12-18-2005
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the midas touch, do you think that sex for pleasure is wrong? If so, tell me why.
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#228
12-18-2005
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Sex for pleasure (assuming both sides are getting pleased) is twice as good as just jerking yourself off, right?
Instead of one person being happy, two are. IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME.

Sex for pleasure (with a random chick you see at a club) might be morally wrong, but it's still something that's a commonplace in our society. It's something that within the next 5-6 years (once I turn 21), I'll probably end up doing myself.
Then I'll look back (when I'm 35 or so) and wonder why I wasted all those nights trying to live like Tucker Max. I should've studied hard and pursued my interest in the Material Sciences. But, alas, the siren song of the vagina called my name and took me off course.


I don't have a strong stand on Pre-Marital sex though (if it happens, it happens).



^my signature picture disappeared. How does I get it back?

If there were no reward
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#229
12-18-2005
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Why might it be morally wrong? You could easily consider it a waste if you do it instead of focusing on your college education, but sex for pleasure is not inherently a bad thing.
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#230
12-18-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
Why might it be morally wrong? You could easily consider it a waste if you do it instead of focusing on your college education, but sex for pleasure is not inherently a bad thing.
Morals are based on individuals. For example, .Ghost (who has made at least 1 kickass sig) and Vrbas obviously feel it's morally wrong.


For me, maybe morally isn't the best word.
The same way Halo2 is "bad," sex solely for pleasure is bad. (I'm not saying halo2 = sex though).
You still do play halo, but it's bad (but not BAD).
I don't even know if bad is the best word either, but it's the first that comes to mind.

(I don't know if you understand the previous section, but it's hard to put into words the feeling it is. If you need further clarification, tell me.)

Maybe it's because society has taught me that sex is a dirty thing. However, as I grow older, I start to lose trust, lose faith, lose respect (?) for that idea.



^my signature picture disappeared. How does I get it back?

If there were no reward
No loving embrace to see me through
This tedious path I've chosen here
I certainly would've walked away by now
 

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