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Vrbas
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#201
12-17-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Bond
Nobody can prove either side. There's no point in debating it Vrbas, you know this lol. You just love stirring people up eh? It's cool. I like it. I'm an Atheist and if you'd like to have a discussion. Add me to AIM or MSN and we'll chat about it. Go over some points. I think it'd be a cool/good discussion.
Ha, not really. I just have people always asking ME the questions and asking ME to prove something. What's wrong with turning it back at them and asking the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
...Why should they have to control themselves?

And if you want to look at it that way, every single thing we do in our lives is selfish, just to further our own existence.

There's nothing selfish about wanting pleasure. Especially if you give pleasure in return. We'll look at it this way; sex = not selfish, rape = selfish.
True, everything we do in life can be considered selfish. I do have to agree with you on the rape issue. I honestly do.

But about sex for pleasure and sex before marriage, the reason i see it as a "higher" act of selfishness is because you aren't looking out for the needs, wants, desires of your future wife. Again, think of your virginity as a gift. You only got one you know. It, IMO, is one FAT selfless act to save yourself till marriage because you are putting the other persons wants above your own. There are VERY few girls out there who want a "used" package. Think of saving yourself till marriage as a love gift to your partner. An ultimate gift of selflessness. You know how hard it is not to have sex outside of marriage. We are all tempted beyond belief. Wouldn't that make the reward that much greater if you were to achieve your goal? I KNOW for a fact that it would.

Last edited by Vrbas; 12-17-2005 at 01:09 PM.
Cursed Lemon
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#202
12-17-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Ha, not really. I just have people always asking ME the questions and asking ME to prove something. What's wrong with turning it back at them and asking the same?



True, everything we do in life can be considered selfish. I do have to agree with you on the rape issue. I honestly do.

But about sex for pleasure and sex before marriage, the reason i see it as a "higher" act of selfishness is because you aren't looking out for the needs, wants, desires of your future wife. Again, think of your virginity as a gift. You only got one you know. It, IMO, is one FAT selfless act to save yourself till marriage because you are putting the other persons wants above your own. There are VERY few girls out there who want a "used" package. Think of saving yourself till marriage as a love gift to your partner. An ultimate gift of selflessness. You know how hard it is not to have sex outside of marriage. We are all tempted beyond belief. Wouldn't that make the reward that much greater if you were to achieve your goal? I KNOW for a fact that it would.
I have no qualms with you because I'm sure that you understand everything is different for everyone else. I understand exactly what you mean, I just hold true to the belief that there are people out there who really, truly can have sex without emotional attachments. I am not one of those people, hence I've kept my virginity completely intact. But like I said, people who have sex without attachment need to find other people who have sex without attachment. Otherwise we get people who cheat (unless they lie like rotten whores).

I also think that saving yourself for marriage is kind of a bad idea on the grounds that you might, well...not like your partner in bed. And as we all know, that's a very big issue, whether people want to admit it or not. So while I don't advocate being a complete slut (although in the strictest technical terms, there's nothing wrong with it), I do think that you should have some experience under your belt before you enter into a lifelong committment with one person.


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#203
12-17-2005
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There a pink elephant in my pants, he said I need to work out and that he loves pussy.



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#204
12-17-2005
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The following is an f-in' long post, but keep in mind that I made some damn good points and half of it is quotes. Vrbas, King Bond, .Ghost, read the whole post if you care about having a productive debate with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Look, beliefs/religions ALL require some type of faith. You will NEVER find ALL the answers to life in this lifetime. Even if you dedicate your ENTIRE life doing so. NO ONE can prove EVERYTHING. No one can prove we have been designed by a higher being, despite such a magnitude of evidence. No one can prove evolution is true, despite what many scientist have come up with. No one can prove that the big bang theory is right or wrong. No one can prove ANYTHING. Religioins and beliefs can not be proven. That is where faith comes in.

Here's a question, i've tried proving that God exists, try proving He doesn't.
I've stated before that I don't have a problem with every instance of faith, I'm only bothered when a belief is justified solely through faith. I have faith (belief in the absence of proof) that I'll wake up tomorrow, and I see no problem with that because there's evidence to suggest that I will (the evidence is simply the fact that in all likelihood, I will wake up tomorrow). I have a problem with Christianity because it's justified completely through faith; there's no evidence to suggest the Bible is any more right than the Koran.


I can't prove that God doesn't exist, and for that reason I'm not an atheist. You can't prove that God exists, but you're a Christian anyways. I don't see that as justified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
To each his own. No point in argueing when it's not going to make a difference.
We've got to believe that it will make a difference. That's the only way we'll make progress in this world. We need to keep on arguing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ghost
I will say it again lol.

The main point behind what veryone but me vrbas, and maybe a couple others is.

You guys are selfish and want the cake and eat it, worrying nothing about what might happen next...
Don't just tell me it's wrong again. Tell me why it's wrong. And don't think that I ignore the risks of unwanted pregnancy or STDs. I would never have sex if those risks were present. Seriously though, why is doing something for yourself inherently wrong? Back up your beliefs.

You're saying that premarital sex is bad because people do it for the purpose of experiencing pleasure. Going by that rationale, anything you do for yourself is bad. Wearing comfortable clothing, sleeping in a bed instead of the floor, breathing, those are all things you do for yourself. But they're not morally wrong. So what distinguishes premarital sex from those "selfish" activities I listed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind Bond
If you don't care about the girl? Then you're just straight up an asshole. I hate your type. If you just go from girl to girl with "No Care" I won't even argue with you anymore. No more debate or talk. I hate people like you. You're a poison to society.
I believe it was .Ghost who mentioned the thing about condoms. If you don't care about the girl. Go have sex without condoms. Finish your act. I'd love to see you not care anymore Fucking ignorant horny pieces of shit.
I'm not saying that I'd look at the girl as an object, I'm saying I wouldn't need to love her. Give me a reason why that's wrong. If you had ever paid attention to any of my posts, you wouldn't have even bothered typing the second half of your response. I would only have sex if there was no chance of unwanted pregnancy or STDs. Think before you post, and quit the name-calling. You're really beginning to look like an idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
Why live your life in fear like that? Why must "fear" of birth, "fear" of STDs, "fear" of any other consequences of pre-marital sex even be an issue. Those should repel you from it. IMO, if you're afraid to do something b\c of it's consequences, chances are it's probably not the right choice.
You don't need to worry about any of that crap. You can have premarital sex in a responsible manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
And to this I say, what if both partners want the same thing, just sex? Nothing's been hurt. The point is, sexually liberated people have to find other sexually liberated people.
Cursed Lemon is absolutely right. Kind Bond, Vrbas, I'm not going to have sex with a girl unless she wants to have sex with me. We're both getting pleasure out of it. If there's no emotional connection, there's no chance of emotional scarring unless we become convinced that it was wrong. And there'd have to be an actual reason for me to become convinced.

If you don't think that sex can be had without an emotional connection, consider prostitution. Are you honestly telling me that if I hire a prostitute for the night and make liberal use of her services, that I'm going to experience an emotional connection with her? I wouldn't. Do you even know the main reason for why prostitution exists? It's because most people are like you guys in this thread (the people saying that premarital sex is wrong). It makes it hard to find a girl who doesn't believe the same thing. A bunch of pimps and prostitutes say to themselves, "Hey, there's a lot of demand for sex with no emotional attachment, but not much of a supply, I bet we can make some money off this!" If people realized that there's no good reason not to have sex for pleasure (in a responsible manner), prostitutes would begin to disappear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ghost
Like I said, even if there are ten thousand people who just want to fuck for pleasure the bottom line is they cant control themselves and they are selfish.
Accept this man, it's true.
Yeah, lots of people want to have sex because it feels good. It's not wrong to do something for yourself. If you've got a cookie, and your friend asks for some of it, and you say, "Hells no!" and shove it in your mouth, that's a bad kind of selfish. But it's not a bad kind of selfish to eat the cookie if nobody else wants some of it. You eat the cookie because it tastes good, and that's a selfish reason, but it's not wrong to eat the cookie. So, why is it wrong to have sex for pleasure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
...Why should they have to control themselves?

And if you want to look at it that way, every single thing we do in our lives is selfish, just to further our own existence.

There's nothing selfish about wanting pleasure. Especially if you give pleasure in return. We'll look at it this way; sex = not selfish, rape = selfish.
I'd agree with Cursed Lemon in that there's no altruistic act. Maybe there are altruistic intentions, but every good, supposedly selfless act you can think of has some kind of benefit to the person doing it. You sacrifice your life to save a child, you're benefited because society sees you as a good person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrbas
But about sex for pleasure and sex before marriage, the reason i see it as a "higher" act of selfishness is because you aren't looking out for the needs, wants, desires of your future wife. Again, think of your virginity as a gift. You only got one you know. It, IMO, is one FAT selfless act to save yourself till marriage because you are putting the other persons wants above your own. There are VERY few girls out there who want a "used" package. Think of saving yourself till marriage as a love gift to your partner. An ultimate gift of selflessness. You know how hard it is not to have sex outside of marriage. We are all tempted beyond belief. Wouldn't that make the reward that much greater if you were to achieve your goal? I KNOW for a fact that it would.
Virginity isn't a gift. You think it is, tell me why. And remember, you can't use the Bible, because we're arguing whether premarital sex is bad outside of religion. The girls you're talking about don't want a "used" package because they hold the same irrational beliefs about premarital sex that you do (irrational because there's no good reason for it, it's just in your head). And there are more girls who don't care about virginity than you might suspect. As long as you've never been irresponsible enough to get a girl pregnant or get an STD, what's the problem? You're saying I should wait so that I can say to my wife, "Look honey, I've starved myself of pleasure all my life for you!" You might as well be giving her a diamond the size of a refrigerator. Is that how you look at it? Well, of course it's wonderful to give her a diamond thousands of times bigger than any previously discovered, but is it necessary? Is it wrong not to?

I think it would be a better gift to come into a marriage with experience. Not baggage, but the requisite knowledge to give your wife several orgasms in a single love-making session.
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#205
12-17-2005
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Colostomizer, i only have one thing to say. For you to hold ANY belief, there must be 100% proof that it is correct. You're NEVER going to find that in this lifetime.
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#206
12-17-2005
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For me to claim that anything is an absolute truth, I have to first know that it is. There are plenty of examples of that though. I know for a fact that I exist. I know for a fact that I'm observing things. I know for a fact that I observe certain things to affect me, and I observe that I affect certain things. Maybe the things I observe don't ultimately exist, but I know they exist at least in my personal reality. I know that while I might not be ultimately affecting anything, I'm affecting things in my personal reality. Is anything else important? Not to me. My personal reality is the only thing that matters, and whether or not it coincides with the ultimate reality is completely inconsequential.

I'd love to know what you have to say to my last post. There were some choice nuggets in there.

Last edited by The Colostomizer; 12-18-2005 at 01:12 PM.
Vrbas
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#207
12-17-2005
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The reason i don't respond to your post is because i've responded to the exact same thing several times. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Again, with the attitude of "For me to hold anything as a belief, it must be proved with 100% evidence", you won't be getting ANYWHERE in life. No one can prove ANYTHING. Not even me.
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#208
12-17-2005
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In the post before my last one, I actually brought up some new points that I'd really like for you to consider. And I edited my last post to address the whole "No one can prove ANYTHING" deal.
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#209
12-17-2005
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Look dude, you need to accept the facts. No one can prove anything. No one can prove God exists, no one can prove He doesn't, no one can prove his belief is any more right than that guys. Life without faith is pointless. If we know everything there is to life, why live it? People LIVE to find answers. Without the "unknown", people would get straight up bored and find life to be pointless.

I'm going to point out where you have contradicted yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the colostomizer
For me to claim that anything is an absolute truth, I have to first know that it is.
There are plenty of examples of that though. I know for a fact that I exist. I know for a fact that I'm observing things. I know for a fact that I observe certain things to affect me, and I observe that I affect certain things. Maybe the things I observe don't ultimately exist, but I know they exist at least in my personal reality. I know that while I might not be ultimately affecting anything, I'm affecting things in my personal reality. Is anything else important? Not to me. My personal reality is the only thing that matters, and whether or not it coincides with the ultimate reality is completely inconsequential.
There you go. You've just admited that you will never find truth. You first post that for something to be an absolute it must be proven to you. Then you post that what you perceive is true..... Relativism. If absolute truth were to come up and bite you in the face, would you abandon your relative views? Can you see the contradiction? I'm not pokin' at you to start a fight, i'm just pointing this out.

You're never going to find the answer to anything with the attitude that something must be proven 100%, slap you in the face and kick you in the butt true. Faith must exist. I'm tired of arguing because we are going nowhere and neither one of us listen to eachother. I've answered several of your questions with the same answer way too many times. I've posted why i believe what i believe and i've proved it WITHIN my beliefs. There's nothing more to discuss that is "on topic" with this thread.

Last edited by Vrbas; 12-17-2005 at 11:31 PM.
Deadly Buni
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#210
12-17-2005
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It might just be my personal opinion, but I don't want to touch a girl that had sex without a condom, it's like another guys dick was there un covered just eww.



 

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