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#31
01-07-2014
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since i'm getting tired of how this "debate" is going, i'll just say here that zyphex is putting words in my mouth RE my point about hayek lauding popper. by that i mean i never said that he was lauding popper so as to legitimate his (mises') scientific theory of economy, which is what zyphex's presumption of my misreading assumes.
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 01-07-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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#32
01-07-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM View Post
since i'm getting tired of how this debate is going, i'll just say here that zyphex is putting words in my mouth RE my point about hayek lauding popper. by that i mean i never said that he was lauding popper so as to legitimate his (mises') scientific theory of economy, which is what zyphex's presumption of my misreading assumes.
False. Your very short statement about Hayek lauding Popper (and linking the wiki falsificationism) had me thinking you thought Hayek was a falsificationist through and through.
GT: Zyphex

Last edited by zyphex; 01-07-2014 at 03:35 PM.
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#33
01-07-2014
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Of what relevance to our discussion is the fact that Hayek lauded Popper, being you were the one who brought up Hayek lauding Popper?
GT: Zyphex

Last edited by zyphex; 01-07-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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#34
01-07-2014
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the larger context in which i said that is:

Quote:
here hayek is lauding popper.
here hayek is saying one thing in the context of a symbolic ceremony which awarded him with a symbol of prestige and humanitarian excellence (the Nobel), but his theory has done another in actuality (that is, literally, in practice, it has destroyed less-than-visible subsistence civilizations.)
bourdieu has a word for this.
you decided to take what i said out of context. what i meant by including that was to point out the literal familiarity between hayek and popper (and to tease out the fact that hayek saw his notion of the great society as akin to popper's open society).
moreover i linked to a piece concerning habitus and misrecognition while pointing out that what hayek is saying doesn't match up with the material reality from which he's psychically disinvested


see also http://www.thehaloforum.com/debate-f...ng-zyphex.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 01-07-2014 at 04:10 PM.
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#35
01-07-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM View Post
the larger context in which i said that is:


you decided to take what i said out of context. what i meant by including that was to point out the literal familiarity between hayek and popper (and to tease out the fact that hayek saw his notion of the great society as akin to popper's open society).
moreover i linked to a piece concerning habitus and misrecognition while pointing out that what hayek is saying doesn't match up with the material reality from which he's psychically disinvested


see also http://www.thehaloforum.com/debate-f...ng-zyphex.html
And what does that have to do with my reading suggestion I gave if you were interested in arguments against positivism in economics? Or is this an unrelated commentary on Hayek?
GT: Zyphex
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#36
01-07-2014
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that has more to do with the related point i'm making in the other thread linked above and with the point i was wanting to make by introducing you to the notion of habitus in the first place.

to answer the q: it has nothing to do with the reading suggestion you gave me in any of the senses you might be demanding. but the bits you left out, RE the notion of habitus and the notion of the persistence of misrecognition, have everything to do with the reading suggestion you gave me once again.
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
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#37
01-07-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM View Post
that has more to do with the related point i'm making in the other thread linked above and with the point i was wanting to make by introducing you to the notion of habitus in the first place.

to answer the q: it has nothing to do with the reading suggestion you gave me in any of the senses you might be demanding. but the bits you left out, RE the notion of habitus and the notion of the persistence of misrecognition, have everything to do with the reading suggestion you gave me once again.
Really it doesn't have anything to do with the work I cited. What it does have to do with is the conclusion you already have in your head that the market system is rotten and is responsible for the demise of civilizations.
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#38
01-07-2014
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. . .

oh wow
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Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
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#39
01-07-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
here hayek is saying one thing in the context of a symbolic ceremony which awarded him with a symbol of prestige and humanitarian excellence (the Nobel), but his theory has done another in actuality (that is, literally, in practice, it has destroyed less-than-visible subsistence civilizations.)
and then

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neg rep from PM regarding my last post
the irony is that what you're saying in this post is precisely the reason why i created this thread to introduce you to the concept of habitus. you're projecting; *you've* already concluded "my conclusion".
Tell me how the top quote does not imply that you view markets as the destroyer of civilizations. To me, only if one embraces such a view does it make sense to say that Hayek is suffering from misrecognition in the quote from Hayek you posted. But, since you are more familiar with the term than me, perhaps there is another way, so let me know.
GT: Zyphex
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#40
01-07-2014
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http://mondediplo.com/1998/12/08bourdieu
"What is neoliberalism? A programme for destroying collective structures which may impede the pure market logic."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogoni_people

see also the wealth of other links i've left in the other thread.

the irony i'm pointing out is that what you've demonstrated in posting
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyphex View Post
Really it doesn't have anything to do with the work I cited. What it does have to do with is the conclusion you already have in your head that the market system is rotten and is responsible for the demise of civilizations.
is the truth and relevance of http://ptw.uchicago.edu/Schiff09.pdf, which you ironically also left out in taking my quote earlier out of context.

you also left an important bit of that neg out in your latest post:




what you've really demonstrated is the power and persistence of misrecognition.

by that i mean that thanks to our pseudo-discussion this thread has become a case study into what habitus really means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 01-07-2014 at 06:25 PM.
 

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