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CraftierPantz
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#41
02-09-2006
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well if there isnt like transitional forms with humans and apes, how come all those photos show the monkey gradually turning into a human, kinda looks like transitional forms in that photo



ekattan
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#42
02-09-2006
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Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
And once again with the root, evolution deals with life. Not the origins of life. Stop thinking of the origin of life. Leave that out. This deals with the evidence of life.
I'm not taking about the origin of life, I'm talking about the origins of man. Isn't it true according to the evolution theory that human evolved from monkeys?

What I understand from your comments Achilles is an interpretation of evolution according to you, but not what the evolution theory truly states. The key word in this sentence is "theory".

How can you prove that bee grew it wings longer because of it's natural enviorment? How can you disprove it wasn't a genetic probability of the species?

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#43
02-09-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekattan
I'm not taking about the origin of life, I'm talking about the origins of man. Isn't it true according to the evolution theory that human evolved from monkeys?

What I understand from your comments Achilles is an interpretation of evolution according to you, but not what the evolution theory truly states. The key word in this sentence is "theory".

How can you prove that bee grew it wings longer because of it's natural enviorment? How can you disprove it wasn't a genetic probability of the species?
No man did not come from monkeys. And the fact you are asking me this leads me to believe you are not reading my previous posts. Only skimming. Because I have said it repeatedly and explained it in different ways.

This is not my interpretation of evolution. This is evolution. What do you see in the statement of evolutionary theory and what I am saying. I am not sure you know what a theory is. A theory is used to explain things in life. It is tested against and used to predict future events. This theory has been tested for 150 years and has never been shown to be incorrect. Thats a pretty good winning streak.

The part you are asking about why it wasn't a genetic probability of the speices leads me to think once again you are not reading.

Genetic changes are random. Independent to most extent of the environment. That means they are going to happen not matter what. This is a fact.

This is the mechanism of evolution. It is the mechanism of Natural Selection.

If you have a "bee" with no wings. And it has trouble cooling itself flat flaps are advantageous for that "bee" to have. A random mutation, millions of years ago gave that "bee" some flaps. Not wings. Bigger the flaps, better the thermoregulation. We see this in fossil records.

Next an adavantage comes with bigger size, bigger size gives you better efficiency in almost everything. So the "bees" grow and so do their wings. They are analogous to each other, meaning they grow because of the same homeobox gene that was changed to make them a little bigger.

Eventually the "bees" reach a size where their flaps may be used for gliding. Then they reach a size where they can lift off the ground. Then for flight.

But it is all baby steps. Little baby steps. With selection (meaning their is an advantage for whatever mutation occured) pushing it in a direction.

Do you understand this? Really if you don't understand a part of this you will not understand the whole thing. There is not "interpretation" to Evolutionary theory. It is very cut and dry at the basic level which I am explaining. Its either you get it or you don't understand a part of it.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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#44
02-09-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekattan
I'm not taking about the origin of life, I'm talking about the origins of man. Isn't it true according to the evolution theory that human evolved from monkeys?

What I understand from your comments Achilles is an interpretation of evolution according to you, but not what the evolution theory truly states. The key word in this sentence is "theory".

How can you prove that bee grew it wings longer because of it's natural enviorment? How can you disprove it wasn't a genetic probability of the species?

First off. I don't think you understand genetic changes and how they are random. They happen no matter what. Even if something is at its optimum fit for the environment at a certain time changes still happen. Then this creates different characteristics.

This is the mechanism of Evolution and Natural Selection. It just happens. We observe it.

Next - I have mentioned the man to monkey thing repeatedly. I don't think you are really reading what I have said.

And there is not interpretation to Evolution. Either you don't understand a part of the basic principles or are not reading them.

There is a theory of gravity too. Evolution has more evidence supporting it than there is in any other theory out there. It is the most studied one out there. Think Library of Congress full of info. Actually there is a lot of info there supporting it.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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#45
02-09-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekattan
So if these changes are random how can you say they work with natural selection? Nature would have nothing to do with it if it were random?

What you have seen is something random occur, you just take it in faith of evolution that it was because of natural selection. Same faith that is required to believe in Jesus don't ya think?

So you are saying you are a Christian Darwinist? Cause like you said, it's like a bush right? Well whats the root? What did we all derive from? What branch did we sprout from? That is why I mention an ape or a single celled organism.
Don't get caught up on randomness here... To me, randomness is basically like answering "magic". It's just way too complicated to make many predictions. It's a chaotic system. One small change can cause a genetic mutation that could change the organism. Trying to get a perfect understanding of all the things going on behind these mutations would be like tracking individual grains of sand in a sand storm in a desert. Brownian motion-type stuff.
To me, the hardest thing to believe in is randomness. I have never seen an example of "pure" randomness.To me, randomness and probability are merely tools you can use to simplify problems into managable peices.

And that's enough of a rant on randomness for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftierPantz
well if there isnt like transitional forms with humans and apes, how come all those photos show the monkey gradually turning into a human, kinda looks like transitional forms in that photo
Stereotypical evolution image. The media doesn't show whats correct. It shows whatever people want to see. That image is one that everyone knows of, so it can be used in jokes and paradies, thus ensuring its immortality. Anyways, just because people accept it, it doesn't mean it's true.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

Thanks to Shystie for avatar
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#46
02-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftierPantz
well if there isnt like transitional forms with humans and apes, how come all those photos show the monkey gradually turning into a human, kinda looks like transitional forms in that photo
Adressed that a while back. It is just a funny t-shirt. Not a text to picture evolution.


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
y4n3r5
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#47
02-12-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
This is so some of you guys can learn a bit more about evolution. Most people don't really know what it is about and that is absolutely does not have anything to do with god or religion. I guess I could include genetics with this too.

So if you guys have any questions or would like anything explained post it here. I have nothing to study for a while so I am bored and would like to keep my mind going. If not, ignore this and play some Halo.
I like this thread. Evolution is perfectly credible to me, and is still the best explanation we have for the obvious changes that species have undergone over millions of years.
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#48
02-13-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y4n3r5
I like this thread. Evolution is perfectly credible to me, and is still the best explanation we have for the obvious changes that species have undergone over millions of years.

Holy SHIT!!!!! I can understand what you are typing!!!!!


-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621
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#49
02-13-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles
Holy SHIT!!!!! I can understand what you are typing!!!!!
*Shaking head in agreement holding hand over heart!*
Drinking is bad, mmmmm kay.................. OK not really.





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#50
02-14-2006
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a lot of scientists refer to the bible sort of as a geological MAP, which they use to find ancient artifacts, such scrolls and ancient temples, it has worked SOO well for them, not only that but the bible has perdicted many outcomes in history that have already occured..the bible/GOD say the bible is 100% correct so if scientists already proved that some of it is correct well...you do the math!
 

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