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Cursed Lemon
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#61
02-17-2014
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Originally Posted by PM View Post
wat? that was related to klima's post, which is why i posted that his problem is unrelated to consciousness as such (just as urs is) and is more along the lines of the problem of the ship of theseus (which deals with the problem of identity over time) in response to his post, specifically (which dealt with the problem of identity over time)

it's clear now that ur just simply being petty and that ur complaints aren't even on point. quit breathing already
Hey yeah, except that the reductionist theme of the Ship of Theseus is exactly what is being discussed in this thread.


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Ian
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#62
02-17-2014
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
No.

PM.

This thread is about how a dualist reconciles the physical division of the brain.

Nothing more.

That is all I want to talk about.
It is already pretty well known what happens to the brain when it is split in half. Froggy did a pretty good job of explaining that I think. So if you're trying to get at whether people think they identify with one of their brain halves more than the other due to "the left brain being more logical and the right brain being more creative", then that could be something to talk about I suppose, except not really because that's not really true since one needs parts of the right brain to be logical and parts of the left brain to be creative. I didn't read the long posts so I don't know, mayb l8r probly not because i'm always too high for that shit

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That's funny, PM, because I don't find it all that tricky. You're the one who's unnecessarily complicating it.
He unnecessarily complicates everything, but he's just trying to stimulate thought.
Oh, you.
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#63
02-17-2014
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"A simple deconstruction of consciousness - question
If you split the brain and body vertically down the center, which side do "you" end up on?"





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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Hey yeah, except that the reductionist theme of the Ship of Theseus is exactly what is being discussed in this thread.
don't tell me ur actually meaning to ask "how much can u cut up the brain until you can't be said to exist anymore" (aren't u asking instead "if i cut up the brain like so how can i be said to exist anywhere at all since i'm a singular thing i.e. consciousness"?)

don't tell me ur saying u really think that questioning to what degree something is reducible has any bearing on consciousness itself as an activity which ur conflating with "you"



thanks for answering for me ian"
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Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 02-17-2014 at 06:58 PM.
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#64
02-17-2014
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
So if you're trying to get at whether people think they identify with one of their brain halves more than the other due to "the left brain being more logical and the right brain being more creative"
That is 100% NOT what I'm trying to discuss, no.


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#65
02-17-2014
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that's also 100% not what i've been trying to discuss

call me a stickler, but that's only because you phrased your experiment badly in the first place. still, the point is that your question doesn't concern itself with "consciousness" or "you" at all but instead with a very particular, narrow understanding of consciousness as being emergent phenomenon (irregardless of whether this is 'true'), and only asks questions which make any sense if you're already presupposing a presumption of said understanding. this understanding you're presupposing is learned, and insofar as it is learned-- acculturated-- it is also cultural.)
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 02-17-2014 at 07:13 PM.
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#66
02-17-2014
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Originally Posted by PM View Post
don't tell me ur actually meaning to ask "how much can u cut up the brain until you can't be said to exist anymore" (aren't u asking instead "if i cut up the brain like so how can i be said to exist anywhere at all since i'm a singular thing i.e. consciousness"?)
Jesus Christ, man, two things can have slightly differing subjects that follow the same damn line of logic. It's not fucking impossible.

Quote:
don't tell me ur saying u really think that questioning to what degree something is reducible has any bearing on consciousness itself as an activity which ur conflating with "you"
It does if you're a proponent of strong emergence.

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Originally Posted by PM View Post
that's also 100% not what i've been trying to discuss; yet that's what you keep seeming to want to say i'm trying to discuss (while adding, hilariously, that i'm "absorbing nothing" of what ur saying). (shut up).

call me a stickler because you phrased your experiment badly.
And now you're just throwing posts in a blender and then responding to that.


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#67
02-17-2014
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Jesus Christ, man, two things can have slightly differing subjects that follow the same damn line of logic. It's not fucking impossible.



It does if you're a proponent of strong emergence.
i laughed pretty hard, thank you
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Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
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#68
02-17-2014
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Jesus Christ, man, two things can have slightly differing subjects that follow the same damn line of logic. It's not fucking impossible.



It does if you're a proponent of strong emergence.



And now you're just throwing posts in a blender and then responding to that.
the activity of consciousness is the imaginative apprehension of symbolic assemblages.
consciousness is locatable even in the process of learning bodily techniques (certain special forms of behavior like walking or eating, (we're taught to walk and eat in such and such ways in school, or in the army, or we imitate parents, actors on TV, etc.); while we're learning and disciplining ourselves to act in pre-approved ways and to act tactically in disapproved ways, etc., we are doing so "consciously". tl;dr we could be said to be "consciously" locatable in our whole bodily movements. you'd reduce this to the neurological fact of the brain exciting movement, which is right and good, etc., okay, but you don't seem to want to ask anything like 'to what extent could consciousness even exist' without e.g. the rest of the body, through which it is habitually exercised and to which it (to evoke the metaphor of the cs. being seated in the brain like on a chair behind the eyes, looking out) makes first contact as being "me" (say, in a mirror).

idk, i think maybe it could be fruitful. it very well may not be-- we'll see-- but i think it's an interesting "complication".
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Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
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#69
02-17-2014
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That is a psychological interpretation of consciousness, not a metaphysical one.


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#70
02-17-2014
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*sees another quick response from old sour lemon* o i bet this is good




. . . "not a metaphysical" . . .


nope
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Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
 

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