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#21
02-10-2014
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because there specifically i want to know why you think "you" are in your brain and not in your groin, legs, feet, toes etc., also. (i want to see your reasoning as a physicalist)
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 02-10-2014 at 07:39 PM.
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#22
02-10-2014
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If you're contesting the notion that the consciousness or any like idea of the self is rooted in the brain, well that's not really an argument I'd care to take on.


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#23
02-10-2014
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hu? i was asking for what your reasoning looks like, being a physicalist and all
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem
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#24
02-10-2014
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Uh, no amputated arm has ever displayed characteristics of consciousness, nor has any amputee ever complained of a loss of self-awareness.

There's nothing to debate about. It's like asking why the sky is blue - a system makes it that way, I don't know how the system got there.


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#25
02-11-2014
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>unquestioningly naturalizing consciousness ("system is as system does, don't ask me how it got there" (stays there*), which really means, "don't ask me bc i don't care to ask myself about that at all")
>unquestioningly treating "you" as "your consciousness"

i'm not saying the arm, etc., is "you", or even that you're no longer "you" without your arm, etc.
i was just asking for how you're rationalizing the fact that, for you, "you" is the brain (is consciousness)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 02-11-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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#26
02-11-2014
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Being a materialist is basically being a metaphysical atheist. I don't have to prove that something isn't there.


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#27
02-12-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
If you split the brain and body vertically down the center, which side do "you" end up on?
I'm guessing the most meaningful 'you' would probably be along with whatever side has the speech center, since that's associated with a lot of the higher level functions. Consciousness doesn't strike me as a binary thing.

The closest to this I'm aware of is cutting the corpus callosum, which leads to all sorts of fun. The good ol' not being aware of things on the right, but being able to pick them out stuff. Despite the instances of one hand interfering with the other, and such stuff, the common belief among researchers is that there's still one consciousness, or at least that there aren't two separate ones. There are still other channels that information can flow from one side to the other.

I find it very interesting how little of what we do falls under what I'd call conscious control. Almost everything about movement, a good deal of speech, and much more can be done with little to no conscious effort. I personally attempt to maintain an awareness of them as much as I can.

I look forward to seeing what we're able to get to in my lifetime with current computing capabilities, and the enormous amounts of information we can now capture and store from the brain. Between ever increasing ability to get information out, increased physics knowledge for simulation, and increasing computational power, I'm hoping we can science out a bit more out of philosophy's domain. It worked out pretty well for math, chemistry, and physics.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

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#28
02-12-2014
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It's Froggy.

Suddenly want to give out hugs.


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#29
02-12-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Being a materialist is basically being a metaphysical atheist. I don't have to prove that something isn't there.
what.

how does that relate to what i was saying? (if anything you'd have to "prove" that the "you" you want to talk about is the same thing as the "conscious you" you're implicitly equating it with, but i didn't even ask for a proof, only your rationale; correct me if i'm wrong but the reasoning you gave consists in saying that, based on your other unchallenged/unchallengeable assumptions, you don't have to prove that consciousness isn't outside the brain? (keep in mind also that i never implied it was)). you're not really considering something froggy took up in his post, namely, that human beings mostly act out of habitus, that is, pre-consciously, not consciously. (it is the system "preconscious" that, by default, controls movements, like all bodily movements, after all).

i'd resist froggy's scientific optimism for a number of reasons but i like the idea he's getting at more explicitly than i had before, that is, that speech is essential to having a conception of the conscious you in the first place
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Here's the problem - I am not a means to the end of rape culture, I am the end. I am literally the termination of this whole ordeal.
here's the problem

Last edited by PM; 02-12-2014 at 08:09 AM.
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#30
02-12-2014
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Why exactly do I have to substantiate that the consciousness (or what people think is the consciousness) is in the brain, and not in the middle toe of the left foot?

What does that have to do with my original question and what possible reason could you have to suggest the latter in the first place?


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