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Nv1ncible
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#1
11-20-2013
Default Affordable Care Act: Why am I required to buy Health Insurance?

Ok, this is a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately, and despite having a relatively good idea of who will respond to this and what they will say, I want to (try to) be open minded.

Why should I be required to carry health insurance, less be penalized (taxed)?
muRda
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#2
11-20-2013
Default

I remember that "explain it to me like an 11yo" or w/e subreddit that had a pretty good layout of everything (I think including reasoning from Congressional hearings or w/e).
Nv1ncible
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#3
11-20-2013
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Ok, I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Maybe this? http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikei...d_what_did_it/

So, hypothetically, the logic used to justify this legislation could be extended to almost any good or service if it were deemed "required" by the legislative majority?

Last edited by Nv1ncible; 11-20-2013 at 03:56 PM.
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#4
11-20-2013
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why don't we have single payer?

cause our country is fucked and run by greedy people who might hate us
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#5
11-20-2013
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You're required to have insurance because instead of having a completely unified system we have to force people into... having choice because freedom.

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#6
11-20-2013
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I don't want to hijack the thread but since it's a similar topic I've been wondering something. Children get cut from their parents plan at 25yo but parents are able to pay for their children's car insurance for as long as they wish... why can't parents choose to cover their adult children on their health insurance for as long as they wish as well?
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#7
11-20-2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nv1ncible View Post
Ok, this is a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately, and despite having a relatively good idea of who will respond to this and what they will say, I want to (try to) be open minded.

Why should I be required to carry health insurance, less be penalized (taxed)?
Because you need to do your part to take care of the less fortunate (those who are less wealthy and/or those who have worse health). If a person doesn't want insurance, it is usually because that person thinks they are relatively healthy. But the people that are healthy are just the people we need to join the health care system because they can help drive down premiums, thus making health care more accessible for those burdened by bad health. Without healthy people buying insurance that they don't use that often, premiums will be too high.

In addition, you never know when an emergency may occur. Therefore you should always be protected by insurance because there is always some risk of you becoming injured or ill.
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#8
11-21-2013
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A fair and measured account of those in support's argument^

Health care is a requirement for life just like food and shelter, so as far as I'm concerned it's something that "must" be purchased anyway. Sure you can weasel your way around facing that reality based on a few outliers, but by and large, just as I'm comfortable saying people need 3 squares a day and a roof over their heads, I'm comfortable saying people need health care. You don't get taxed for not acquiring food, but you do die (which is probably a worse outcome), and if your issue is with a tax on some abstract, vague ethical level, feel free to be dismissive and link up some Youtube anti tax guys saying lots of words about it, but that doesn't change the fact that taxation is a real phenomenon that isn't going anywhere. So try to stick to stuff that is actually happening or has a high likelihood of happening, instead of jumping to:

Quote:
So, hypothetically, the logic used to justify this legislation could be extended to almost any good or service if it were deemed "required" by the legislative majority?
The world generally doesn't operate in abstract hypothetical reductio ad absurdum.

Mike touches on my own misgivings with the act, and Crest nails it. The spin around the act is that it's anti-freedom or whatever to force people to buy something, and that may be so, but I'd argue that if you want to go down that line of thought you'll end up at single-payer eventually. Really what's going on is that people are required to buy from private companies who now, in the ideal scenario, will have to actually compete with each other on a national level. The idea is that it will get more affordable in time, after the market catches up (and provided we go further to ensure insurers stop straight up lying to their current customers about their options--"Oh we went ahead and enrolled you in this more expensive plan but it's the cheapest you'll get" lol get fucked). What is actually going on is people are still terrified of the prospects of a real single payer system, so we got this shitty compromise instead and insurance companies still get to fuck us.
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Last edited by davobrosia; 11-21-2013 at 08:59 AM.
Nv1ncible
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#9
11-21-2013
Default

I have no problem saying that health care is a necessity either, but we are talking about health insurance. I guess the first thing I would want to understand is WHY is healthcare itself so costly? What about that marketplace makes it noncompetitive? I think the answer to that has to have some relation to US govenment policy, because I have heard and read about people leaving the country to have operations done to save money. So why is the global market more competitive than the US health care market?

I think if health care costs come down, it would make sense that health insurance costs would as well, at least to some extent.

But to go back to the ACA, and what seems to be your justification for a tax in this scenario. 3 squares and a roof over your head are certainly necessities, but in neither case are you actually taxed by the government for lack of possession. The ACA has set a new precedent in that it is unlike all other taxes, where the tax is a result of having actually purchased or owned something, or made particular actions (ex. married). In this case, the tax is distributed for the absence of action/ownership. That seems really dangerous to me, and completely unfair. It's certainly not freedom.
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#10
11-21-2013
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I don't know too much about the specifics because I'm still under my mom's health insurance, but say, in the future, I don't have insurance and get taxed X amount of dollars. Where does that go? Is it just part of the government's bank account, or does it go to help those less fortunate and unable to get their own health care? If it's the latter, then the whole "if you don't get health insurance, then we'll just give it to someone else," thing is kind of shitty. I like the idea of helping people in the way of lowering premiums and costs, but taxing healthy individuals with almost no need for insurance for the less healthy seems kind of odd to me.

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