Halo 2 Forum > Off-topic > Debate Forum > Religion Debate
 
 
Display Modes Thread Tools
Steve Da Egg
Tech Support Section
Steve Da Egg's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,846
Subtract from Steve Da Egg's ReputationAdd to Steve Da Egg's Reputation Steve Da Egg is a novice
Send a message via AIM to Steve Da Egg
#11
05-13-2007
Default

A rebuttal for the hell of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
1. A creator and its creation are necessarily separate.
2. If a thing is to exist, it must exist inside all of existence (the universe), lest it cross over into nonexistence.
3. A creator of the universe cannot exist.
1.Understood
2. By definition God is supernatural, and not governed by the laws of the universe.
3. The creator of the universe does exist outside the confines of our universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
1. Causality is a natural property of the universe.
2. Everything in the universe is necessarily governed by causality.
3. As everything that is ruled by cause and effect is natural - that is, OF the universe - so was the first cause.
4. The first cause was not supernatural.
5. A supernatural thing cannot causally support the existence of the universe.

2. The phrase "Everything in" denotes all matter, energy, the stuff-stuff. Says nothing about origin of the universe.

1. Anything finite can not cause itself into existence, and must be contingent on something else i.e. cause and effect.
2. The universe came into existence.
3. There must be a supernatural cause i.e. outside of the finite universe.

Last edited by Steve Da Egg; 05-13-2007 at 03:57 PM.
Cursed Lemon
Darren Helm's Bitch
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 14,766
Subtract from Cursed Lemon's ReputationAdd to Cursed Lemon's Reputation Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000
Send a message via AIM to Cursed Lemon Send a message via MSN to Cursed Lemon Send a message via Yahoo to Cursed Lemon
#12
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Da Egg View Post
By definition God is supernatural, and not governed by the laws of the universe.
We must accept that while a thing's cause may not BE known, a thing's cause that definitively CAN'T be known cannot exist. As a thing exists, it performs a certain function of existing in the process. But a thing that exists and produces effects without an inherent cause has no existential makeup.


Elmo <3
Steve Da Egg
Tech Support Section
Steve Da Egg's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,846
Subtract from Steve Da Egg's ReputationAdd to Steve Da Egg's Reputation Steve Da Egg is a novice
Send a message via AIM to Steve Da Egg
#13
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
We must accept that while a thing's cause may not BE known, a thing's cause that definitively CAN'T be known cannot exist. As a thing exists, it performs a certain function of existing in the process. But a thing that exists and produces effects without an inherent cause has no existential makeup.
Ah, but a theist would say the cause is known, and that cause is God.
PLaST1c SpOoNs
Level 44
PLaST1c SpOoNs's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: C O L O R A D O
Posts: 5,457
Subtract from PLaST1c SpOoNs's ReputationAdd to PLaST1c SpOoNs's Reputation PLaST1c SpOoNs is a novice
Send a message via AIM to PLaST1c SpOoNs
#14
05-13-2007
Default

you cant prove it definitively one way or the other

people have faith to believe in a God

being agnostic would be like saying, "ehh...idk if there is one, im just gonna lay back for a while"

but people who believe in a God have faith that that God exists.

It's all about faith, nukkaz
Cursed Lemon
Darren Helm's Bitch
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 14,766
Subtract from Cursed Lemon's ReputationAdd to Cursed Lemon's Reputation Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000
Send a message via AIM to Cursed Lemon Send a message via MSN to Cursed Lemon Send a message via Yahoo to Cursed Lemon
#15
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Da Egg View Post
Ah, but a theist would say the cause is known, and that cause is God.
All knowledge is empirical. Nobody empirically knows God.


Elmo <3
Steve Da Egg
Tech Support Section
Steve Da Egg's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,846
Subtract from Steve Da Egg's ReputationAdd to Steve Da Egg's Reputation Steve Da Egg is a novice
Send a message via AIM to Steve Da Egg
#16
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
All knowledge is empirical. Nobody empirically knows God.
Prove to me that empiricism is the only way knowledge can be obtained.

What about instincts or theoretical science?
Cursed Lemon
Darren Helm's Bitch
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 14,766
Subtract from Cursed Lemon's ReputationAdd to Cursed Lemon's Reputation Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000
Send a message via AIM to Cursed Lemon Send a message via MSN to Cursed Lemon Send a message via Yahoo to Cursed Lemon
#17
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Da Egg View Post
Prove to me that empiricism is the only way knowledge can be obtained.

What about instincts or theoretical science?
The unconscious is grabbing at straws, and rationally deduced things still arise from empirical observations. The mind has innate faculties but these faculties are useless if empirical data isn't used in them.


Elmo <3
Steve Da Egg
Tech Support Section
Steve Da Egg's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,846
Subtract from Steve Da Egg's ReputationAdd to Steve Da Egg's Reputation Steve Da Egg is a novice
Send a message via AIM to Steve Da Egg
#18
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
The unconscious is grabbing at straws, and rationally deduced things still arise from empirical observations. The mind has innate faculties but these faculties are useless if empirical data isn't used in them.
Fixed action patters happen regardless of an external stimulus, and therefore no empirical observations are necessary.
Storms
Level 48
Storms's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,027
Subtract from Storms's ReputationAdd to Storms's Reputation Storms is a novice
Send a message via AIM to Storms
#19
05-13-2007
Default

You cannot possibly know that he is authentic. People believe because they believe, there is nothing more definite. For the record, if God is real, he cannot be an infinite, but and infinitum. I am on and off in believing, yet no one can possibly identify his being. The predominance of the world is Christian, but that doesnít mean itís true. Think about something for a second. If one human looks up in the sky in the middle of nowhere, people will follow him and also look up. This situation may be closely related to religion. So, putting that in the topic, you can never know.

I'm Dennis Frogman 'cause a nigga gangsta.
Cursed Lemon
Darren Helm's Bitch
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 14,766
Subtract from Cursed Lemon's ReputationAdd to Cursed Lemon's Reputation Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000 Cursed Lemon IS OVER 9000
Send a message via AIM to Cursed Lemon Send a message via MSN to Cursed Lemon Send a message via Yahoo to Cursed Lemon
#20
05-13-2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Da Egg View Post
Fixed action patters happen regardless of an external stimulus, and therefore no empirical observations are necessary.
Wait...what?


Elmo <3
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off