Halo 2 Forum > Off-topic > Debate Forum > Religion Debate
View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?
Nuh uh, no way he's real 84 47.46%
Maybe, i can see where he can reasonably exist 32 18.08%
Yes, i believe God exists 61 34.46%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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TooMuchButtHair
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#271
06-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Soo Dopee View Post
"Big Bang" Theory.
What aspect of the theory do you dislike? It explains the CMBR, as well as a hundred other lines of evidence. It has quite a lot of evidence backing it.

Quote:
a theory, in my opinion, is something that hasn't been proven.
A theory is something that has a great deal of evidence supporting it. It must be supported by a large number of observations, and it has to be rigorously tested. You're thinking of a hypothesis, not a theory.
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowl View Post
. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
Im Soo Dopee
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#272
06-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMuchButtHair View Post
What aspect of the theory do you dislike? It explains the CMBR, as well as a hundred other lines of evidence. It has quite a lot of evidence backing it.



A theory is something that has a great deal of evidence supporting it. It must be supported by a large number of observations, and it has to be rigorously tested. You're thinking of a hypothesis, not a theory.
I don't see how "nothing created something". Somebody had to create it all, right?
And my mistake, thanks for correcting me.
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#273
06-02-2010
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The net energy of the universe is zero. There's still nothing.
Spoiler!
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#274
06-02-2010
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leave him be guys, it is a troll


it has to be
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#275
06-02-2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Soo Dopee View Post
I don't see how "nothing created something". Somebody had to create it all, right?
And my mistake, thanks for correcting me.
That's an argument from ignorance. You can't say, "I don't see how it's possible" and then, in the same sentence say, "but god totally did it". Quantum mechanically, cause and effect don't exist. There doesn't need to be a first cause for the big bang.

Perhaps I can invoke a more familiar example. Have you taken physics or chemistry as a high school student, or do you know anything about radioactive decay? If an element has a half life of five hours, and you have one atom of that element, will that element decay into it's daughter products in five hours? You can't say for sure. It might decay in one second, or it may never decay. There is no cause and effect in it's decay. It's just probabilistic.


In the same way, when you have 'nothing', as you put it, you can't create something from it, right? You would be totally wrong if you said yes. There are a large number of experiments that indicate that nothing can spontaneously make something, so long as the net energy remains the same. So, you can create a universe from nothing, so long as the net sum energy is zero. Care to guess how much energy our universe contains? All data points to zero.
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowl View Post
. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
JustMarioBros
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#276
06-02-2010
Default

Horus - Egypt 3000 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*Adorned by 3 kings
*Teacher at 12
*Baptized at 30
*12 disciples
*Performed miracles
*Crucified
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected

Attis - Greece 1200 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attis
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*Crucified
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected

Krishna - India 900 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna
*Born of a virgin
*Performed miracles
*Resurrected after death

Dionysus - Greece 500 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus
*Born of a virgin
*Born dec 25th
*Performed miracles/turned water to wine
*"King of Kings" "Alpha and Omega"
*Upon death was resurrected


Mithra - Persia 1200 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_Mysteries
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*12 disciples
*Performed miracles
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa3.htm

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...n/lecture.html

Quote:

I have seen NUMEROUS sources recently that expose Christianity as nothing more than altered paganistic sun worship.

There are several key videos that make the case. I cannot figure how to embed them, but I welcome any help.

My favorite is very short and to the point. It has no publicized authorship, and appears to be very “underground.” Nonetheless, most of the information is factual and difficult to dispute. It can be found here (26 minutes):
http://video.google.com/googleplayer...55236037&hl=en

Secondly, Reginald Finley interviews a woman who wrote a book about this issue (48 minutes):
http://www.youtube.com/v/ELoN3OSY6hA

Finally, the first video I saw on this topic is called “The Naked Truth”, and it lasts for about 2 hours.

Mod: What is it with people breaking our pages with over-sized links? Puzzled
Anyway, fixed it: Click here.

You can watch all of those videos to understand the arguments.

To put it in a nutshell:

1. Jesus is not a deity. He may or may not have been a real person.

2. The story of Jesus is plagiarized from other religions far more ancient than Christianity. This goes beyond Judaism. The bulk can be directly traced to Egyptian religion and worship of the sun god, Horus, who happens to share many important features with Jesus. These features are so identical, the issue cannot be due to coincidence. This is not to say that Horus is the only Pagan god with similar features, but he is one of the most identical to Jesus. Others might be Mithra, Krishna, Dionysus, Attis, or Zoroaster.

http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm http://ask.metafilter.com/54488/Firs...sus-References http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/horus.html http://englishatheist.org/indexz31.shtml

Armed with a few good search words, your studies may yield better and more abundant sources.

3. All of the story of Jesus is astrology. He dies on a cross. The sun in the winter solstice on December 25 hangs in a constellation known as the crux. Then it is “born” after 3 days of seemingly hanging in the same spot and starts to set in a different place going further North each night. People were so fearful in the winter that the sun would not came back that they celebrated its return, and the end of the continual shortening of days. When it is born, the North star lines up with Orion’s belt, composed of three stars known as the “three kings”. In sum, this is all that the resurrection is. Nothing more. There was no real cross and no real dying savior. All of that mumbo jumbo was a template for other theological ideas, such as sin and salvation, to take root.

4. If Jesus WAS real, then it is highly likely that he was groomed to recycle myths from the past in order to become a tool of social control. In any event, the real or fictional Jesus was a tool of political control when he became historicized. Some scholars, I believe, may claim that Chrsitian gnosticism never intended for Jesus to be a real person and that the rituals and religious concepts of gnosticism were borrowed from other Pagan religions. I believe that the most plausible version is one in which religious gnostics made up the religion truly believing that it was something great, but that there was no real Jesus. Later, people like Paul (who never eyewitnessed Jesus) possibly either mistakenly thought Jesus was historical or concocted the historical Jesus. Being a skeptic, I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories. So once again, I would favor the church fathers mistakenly believing in a historical Jesus after years of the birth of non-historical Jesus Christian gnosticism.

How do Christians respond to the claim that Christianity is sun worship?
Oh poop.
Im Soo Dopee
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#277
06-02-2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMuchButtHair View Post
That's an argument from ignorance. You can't say, "I don't see how it's possible" and then, in the same sentence say, "but god totally did it". Quantum mechanically, cause and effect don't exist. There doesn't need to be a first cause for the big bang.

Perhaps I can invoke a more familiar example. Have you taken physics or chemistry as a high school student, or do you know anything about radioactive decay? If an element has a half life of five hours, and you have one atom of that element, will that element decay into it's daughter products in five hours? You can't say for sure. It might decay in one second, or it may never decay. There is no cause and effect in it's decay. It's just probabilistic.


In the same way, when you have 'nothing', as you put it, you can't create something from it, right? You would be totally wrong if you said yes. There are a large number of experiments that indicate that nothing can spontaneously make something, so long as the net energy remains the same. So, you can create a universe from nothing, so long as the net sum energy is zero. Care to guess how much energy our universe contains? All data points to zero.

So, the world is nothing?
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#278
06-02-2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMarioBros View Post
Horus - Egypt 3000 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*Adorned by 3 kings
*Teacher at 12
*Baptized at 30
*12 disciples
*Performed miracles
*Crucified
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected

Attis - Greece 1200 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attis
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*Crucified
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected

Krishna - India 900 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna
*Born of a virgin
*Performed miracles
*Resurrected after death

Dionysus - Greece 500 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus
*Born of a virgin
*Born dec 25th
*Performed miracles/turned water to wine
*"King of Kings" "Alpha and Omega"
*Upon death was resurrected


Mithra - Persia 1200 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_Mysteries
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*12 disciples
*Performed miracles
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa3.htm

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...n/lecture.html



Oh poop.
Who said Jesus was born on December 25? And notice how they don't capitalize the "g" in god.

Last edited by Im Soo Dopee; 06-02-2010 at 08:58 PM.
JustMarioBros
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#279
06-02-2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Soo Dopee View Post
Who said Jesus was born on December 25?
Oh right, disregard absolutely everything. You're right, it's all BS since he was born on different date.



Posting it on new page now, waiting for a legitimate explanation from a true believer.

Horus - Egypt 3000 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*Adorned by 3 kings
*Teacher at 12
*Baptized at 30
*12 disciples
*Performed miracles
*Crucified
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected

Attis - Greece 1200 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attis
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*Crucified
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected

Krishna - India 900 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna
*Born of a virgin
*Performed miracles
*Resurrected after death

Dionysus - Greece 500 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus
*Born of a virgin
*Born dec 25th
*Performed miracles/turned water to wine
*"King of Kings" "Alpha and Omega"
*Upon death was resurrected


Mithra - Persia 1200 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_Mysteries
*Born Dec. 25th
*Born of a virgin
*12 disciples
*Performed miracles
*Dead for 3 days
*Resurrected


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa3.htm

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...n/lecture.html

Quote:

I have seen NUMEROUS sources recently that expose Christianity as nothing more than altered paganistic sun worship.

There are several key videos that make the case. I cannot figure how to embed them, but I welcome any help.

My favorite is very short and to the point. It has no publicized authorship, and appears to be very “underground.” Nonetheless, most of the information is factual and difficult to dispute. It can be found here (26 minutes):
http://video.google.com/googleplayer...55236037&hl=en

Secondly, Reginald Finley interviews a woman who wrote a book about this issue (48 minutes):
http://www.youtube.com/v/ELoN3OSY6hA

Finally, the first video I saw on this topic is called “The Naked Truth”, and it lasts for about 2 hours.

Mod: What is it with people breaking our pages with over-sized links? Puzzled
Anyway, fixed it: Click here.

You can watch all of those videos to understand the arguments.

To put it in a nutshell:

1. Jesus is not a deity. He may or may not have been a real person.

2. The story of Jesus is plagiarized from other religions far more ancient than Christianity. This goes beyond Judaism. The bulk can be directly traced to Egyptian religion and worship of the sun god, Horus, who happens to share many important features with Jesus. These features are so identical, the issue cannot be due to coincidence. This is not to say that Horus is the only Pagan god with similar features, but he is one of the most identical to Jesus. Others might be Mithra, Krishna, Dionysus, Attis, or Zoroaster.

http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm http://ask.metafilter.com/54488/Firs...sus-References http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/horus.html http://englishatheist.org/indexz31.shtml

Armed with a few good search words, your studies may yield better and more abundant sources.

3. All of the story of Jesus is astrology. He dies on a cross. The sun in the winter solstice on December 25 hangs in a constellation known as the crux. Then it is “born” after 3 days of seemingly hanging in the same spot and starts to set in a different place going further North each night. People were so fearful in the winter that the sun would not came back that they celebrated its return, and the end of the continual shortening of days. When it is born, the North star lines up with Orion’s belt, composed of three stars known as the “three kings”. In sum, this is all that the resurrection is. Nothing more. There was no real cross and no real dying savior. All of that mumbo jumbo was a template for other theological ideas, such as sin and salvation, to take root.

4. If Jesus WAS real, then it is highly likely that he was groomed to recycle myths from the past in order to become a tool of social control. In any event, the real or fictional Jesus was a tool of political control when he became historicized. Some scholars, I believe, may claim that Chrsitian gnosticism never intended for Jesus to be a real person and that the rituals and religious concepts of gnosticism were borrowed from other Pagan religions. I believe that the most plausible version is one in which religious gnostics made up the religion truly believing that it was something great, but that there was no real Jesus. Later, people like Paul (who never eyewitnessed Jesus) possibly either mistakenly thought Jesus was historical or concocted the historical Jesus. Being a skeptic, I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories. So once again, I would favor the church fathers mistakenly believing in a historical Jesus after years of the birth of non-historical Jesus Christian gnosticism.

How do Christians respond to the claim that Christianity is sun worship?
Oh poop.

Last edited by JustMarioBros; 06-02-2010 at 08:58 PM.
TooMuchButtHair
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#280
06-02-2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Soo Dopee View Post
So, the world is nothing?
I like how you strawmanned what I had to say. Do you understand the concept of energy? There is kinetic energy and potential energy. When you're holding a ball five feet above the ground, it has the potential to be converted into kinetic energy, and when you drop it, it is converted to kinetic energy. That's the simple bit. Atoms have energy locked up inside them, in the form of gluons (and other things). This is what's known as positive energy. There are many other forms of positive energy, and there are also forms of negative energy. When you quantify all the + and - forms of energy, you end up with zero. They all cancel each other out.

Look up virtual particles for the absolute simplest examples of things forming spontaneously, from nothing. Everything is just borrowed energy, so to speak, that must be paid back at the end of the universe (be that a big crunch or a big rip).
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowl View Post
. . .
Chimpanzee (our closest living relative) is a well known homosexual animal.. . .
 

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